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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    24 Sep '12 23:20
    As you know if you care about this sort of thing, this year saw the Arctic ice minimum absolutely shatter the old record - according to some sources, the record was broken by 18%.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/19/arctic-ice-shrinks

    Even for people who were once ambivalent about the AGW issue (including myself), the evidence is becoming overwhelming that the Earth is heating more quickly than would be explained by natural cyclical patterns.

    I think it's time that all options be considered. I'm not talking about ineffective Robin Hood plans like Kyoto. I'm talking about huge investments in clean renewable energy and also looking into alternative contingency plans to fight global warming, including things like releasing particulates into the mesosphere and whatever else scientists can think up. It's not time to implement those plans yet, but it's time to develop them.
  2. 24 Sep '12 23:59
    Originally posted by sh76
    As you know if you care about this sort of thing, this year saw the Arctic ice minimum absolutely shatter the old record - according to some sources, the record was broken by 18%.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/19/arctic-ice-shrinks

    Even for people who were once ambivalent about the AGW issue (including myself), the evidence is becoming ov ...[text shortened]... ts can think up. It's not time to implement those plans yet, but it's time to develop them.
    That seems compelling until you ask yourself, Where did all that ice (water) go? 18% is really large, especially breaking the record by that much, not just the mean.

    I read in the last year similar chicken little pronouncements on the Antarctic, however it was accompanied by a saner scientist that said the ice is somewhere else. The Earth is not a static, man made biosphere. It is a complex, highly complex system which there is some doubt as to what we can do anyway.

    Remember Jor-El in a supposedly far superior and scientifically advanced society could do noting to prevent his planet from exploding. If the Mayans were right, we have just over 3 months to as Prince said "Party like it's 1999", or at least move away from the coast to high ground.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    25 Sep '12 01:34
    Originally posted by normbenign
    That seems compelling until you ask yourself, Where did all that ice (water) go? 18% is really large, especially breaking the record by that much, not just the mean.

    I read in the last year similar chicken little pronouncements on the Antarctic, however it was accompanied by a saner scientist that said the ice is somewhere else. The Earth is not a st ...[text shortened]... o as Prince said "Party like it's 1999", or at least move away from the coast to high ground.
    I think it's pretty plain that it didn't go anywhere. It just melted.
  4. 25 Sep '12 06:22
    I'm surprised our resident "climate skeptics" haven't brought it up yet (though norm was close), so allow me to make their next argument for them, and then bring it down immediately.

    Yes, while Arctic sea ice is hitting record lows, Antarctic ice levels are increasing. However, this is predicted by most climate models and is because increasing temperatures are evaporating increasing amounts of water from the oceans around Antarctica. When this comes down again over the continent, this has cooled enough to become snow, increasing ice caps. Why is this not happening in the Arctic ? Because there the ice sheets are on top of an ocean instead of on top of land. The Antarctic ice sheets are protected from rising sea temperatures by being on top of dry land, in the Arctic they are in direct contact.

    For those interested, you should be able to find more elaborate explanations for this phenomenon with some googling.

    Some added info, the antartic ice on the other hand is increasing. Before our resident climate "skeptics" start
  5. 25 Sep '12 07:03
    The most effective solution is to increase taxes on energy consumption and then let the market figure out what the best solution to minimizing energy use is, combined with building more nuclear and hydroelectric (where applicable) power plants.
  6. 25 Sep '12 09:18
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The most effective solution is to increase taxes on energy consumption and then let the market figure out what the best solution to minimizing energy use is, combined with building more nuclear and hydroelectric (where applicable) power plants.
    Just removing subsidies on fossil fuels would be a big start.
    Care must also be taken not to incorrectly subsidise bio-fuels that use fossil fuels in the production process - such as the ridiculous US program.
    I am not sure why you don't mention other renewables such as wind and solar which are definitely ready for prime time but just need investment (and the removal of subsidies on competing fossil fuels.)
  7. 26 Sep '12 02:06
    Originally posted by sh76
    As you know if you care about this sort of thing, this year saw the Arctic ice minimum absolutely shatter the old record - according to some sources, the record was broken by 18%.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/19/arctic-ice-shrinks

    Even for people who were once ambivalent about the AGW issue (including myself), the evidence is becoming ov ...[text shortened]... ts can think up. It's not time to implement those plans yet, but it's time to develop them.
    Liberal myth?
  8. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    26 Sep '12 08:26
    Clearly there are 2 choices to this dilemma.
    1. shout (very loudly) "This is not happening" and follow with a wonderful group sing-song.
    If that fails then we must proceed to step 2.
    2. We must convince all the Abrahamic religionists to ask their Holy One to intercede on our behalf.
    If these stern measures fail to fix the problem then we must all practice bending over and kissing our butts goodbye because we are all doomed.
  9. 27 Sep '12 11:30
    Originally posted by caissad4
    Clearly there are 2 choices to this dilemma.
    1. shout (very loudly) "This is not happening" and follow with a wonderful group sing-song.
    If that fails then we must proceed to step 2.
    2. We must convince all the Abrahamic religionists to ask their Holy One to intercede on our behalf.
    If these stern measures fail to fix the problem then we must all practice bending over and kissing our butts goodbye because we are all doomed.
    Wrong!!

    All we need is cap and trade.

    In fact, isn't that a Beetles tune?
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    27 Sep '12 11:51
    Originally posted by caissad4
    Clearly there are 2 choices to this dilemma.
    1. shout (very loudly) "This is not happening" and follow with a wonderful group sing-song.
    If that fails then we must proceed to step 2.
    2. We must convince all the Abrahamic religionists to ask their Holy One to intercede on our behalf.
    If these stern measures fail to fix the problem then we must all practice bending over and kissing our butts goodbye because we are all doomed.
    What reputable scientist has predicted that global warming will kill all, most or a significant percentage of people on Earth?
  11. 27 Sep '12 12:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    What reputable scientist has predicted that global warming will kill all, most or a significant percentage of people on Earth?
    I think AL Gore, inventer of the internet says that.
  12. 27 Sep '12 18:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    I think AL Gore, inventer of the internet says that.
    Whether he invented the internet or not, I don't think he qualifies as a 'reputable scientist'.

    The main contribution to science Al Gore has made is breaking through the censorship on global warming that the US has. It always amazes me that the only information many Americans have with regards to global warming comes from Al Gore.
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    27 Sep '12 19:04
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Whether he invented the internet or not, I don't think he qualifies as a 'reputable scientist'.

    The main contribution to science Al Gore has made is breaking through the censorship on global warming that the US has. It always amazes me that the only information many Americans have with regards to global warming comes from Al Gore.
    Censorship??

    What are you talking about?
  14. 28 Sep '12 01:10
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Whether he invented the internet or not, I don't think he qualifies as a 'reputable scientist'.

    The main contribution to science Al Gore has made is breaking through the censorship on global warming that the US has. It always amazes me that the only information many Americans have with regards to global warming comes from Al Gore.
    That is Bass Ackwards and you know it.
  15. 29 Sep '12 22:17
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Liberal myth?
    just like evolution eh? I heard that in some states the teaching of Darwins theory has been removed from the curriculum. You guys worry me.... alot. You must be brainwashed sensless. And now the biggest consumer in the world isn't going to bother buying in to "the whole global warming thing". So you really cant see that it would be far easier to pay off a few scientists to say everything thats happening is natural than the costly alternative. Capitalism cant slow down are you crazy, trust me capitalism will slow down when the planets a ball of freaking ice. Follow the money always and then you will find the truth. I normally dont debate these issues because thats what they want, us all arguing while they bleed us. Divide and conquer, distraction and subterfuge. PR is sheer power and google is filtering your search results.
    Check the bureau of investigative journalism for evidence.
    If you watch fox news you are less informed than a person who watches no news. America's forgotten whos really in charge because they're too busy fighting each other.
    Peace.