On a side note to the blame white-guy attitude of the extreme woke: I was phoned by a colleague a few weeks back who said:
“Thank you. I’m thanking from all the people in Vught.”
“Uh, why?” I asked.
“For saving us from the Nazis in WW2.”
“Oh, uh, why?”
“Well, it was the Scots who booted the Nazis out of Vught. And you are personally reaponsible for that.”
“Mhmmm,” I pondered, “I’m pretty sure I wasn’t actually there…”
And he interrupted me: “Oh, but if you’re responsible for slavery, then you’re also responsible for beating the Nazis.”
Interesting from the view point that it is absurd to blame a white person for something that happened 6 generations ago. Or from the perspective that if you’re not decended from slaves, that you are unable to form an opinion about slavery or what it is like to be black or female.
But you can also swap it around. How many people tell you that we should be thankful to the US for saving Europe in WW1 and WW2?
Surely if we’re to be thankful for something that happened before our time, then we should be spiteful and regretful for all the bad things eternally as well?
Perhaps the lesson learnt, albeit not quite clear in the international debate yet, is that you can’t be held responsible (good or bad) for the actions or attitudes of previous generations, only for your actions and attitudes now?
And this means that if you, here and now, stumble upon something that is inherently racist or sexist, that you have the choice to accept it or change it.
Not that you can be blamed for creating it. But that you can be held responsible for allowing it to continue.
@shavixmir saidWell said, a good post. A recent subject was about reparations to descendants of slaves, who's ancestors were enslaved by white people many many generations ago.
On a side note to the blame white-guy attitude of the extreme woke: I was phoned by a colleague a few weeks back who said:
“Thank you. I’m thanking from all the people in Vught.”
“Uh, why?” I asked.
“For saving us from the Nazis in WW2.”
“Oh, uh, why?”
“Well, it was the Scots who booted the Nazis out of Vught. And you are personally reaponsible for that.”
“Mhmmm,” ...[text shortened]... you can be blamed for creating it. But that you can be held responsible for allowing it to continue.
Are all of those posts, for or against, now moot if we follow this reasoning? That is, it would not even be up for discussion ?
@shavixmir
"But that you can be held responsible for allowing it to continue"
Absolutely not.
It's not our job to head hunt and try to fix every transgression and we are not responsible for the actions of others.
@averagejoe1 saidI don’t know.
Well said, a good post. A recent subject was about reparations to descendants of slaves, who's ancestors were enslaved by white people many many generations ago.
Are all of those posts, for or against, now moot if we follow this reasoning? That is, it would not even be up for discussion ?
I’m not in favour of reperations because of what happened back in the day.
However, if there are current problems resulting in discrimination, then they do need to be addressed.
@shavixmir saidWealth is a weird thing. I've never had it, but when you look at the stock market and real estate making 30% gains year over year you can have a modest inheritance that came from your plantation-owning great-grandfather of $200,000 that makes more in income than a minimum wage job.
On a side note to the blame white-guy attitude of the extreme woke: I was phoned by a colleague a few weeks back who said:
“Thank you. I’m thanking from all the people in Vught.”
“Uh, why?” I asked.
“For saving us from the Nazis in WW2.”
“Oh, uh, why?”
“Well, it was the Scots who booted the Nazis out of Vught. And you are personally reaponsible for that.”
“Mhmmm,” ...[text shortened]... you can be blamed for creating it. But that you can be held responsible for allowing it to continue.
While I disagree with taxation of hard-earned income (you know, working for a living) the wealth accumulated from slave labor still exists in our country and should be taxed accordingly.
Tax the wealth, not the income.
@wildgrass saidInteresting, Wildgrass. To do some research, discover all monies that were/are derived from the wealth of plantation owners who owned slaves. And, then, set up a commission to tax the present heirs on their present wealth from such inheritance.
Wealth is a weird thing. I've never had it, but when you look at the stock market and real estate making 30% gains year over year you can have a modest inheritance that came from your plantation-owning great-grandfather of $200,000 that makes more in income than a minimum wage job.
While I disagree with taxation of hard-earned income (you know, working for a living) the ...[text shortened]... abor still exists in our country and should be taxed accordingly.
Tax the wealth, not the income.
Yes, let us set aside other projects and get on this. Geez 'O Petey. How many auditors should be hired?
@wildgrass saidAnd what does this mean? You imply, anyway, that hard-earned income should not be taxed? That, only money earned by people who do not earn it by 'hard' work should be taxed?
While I disagree with taxation of hard-earned income (you know, working for a living) the wealth accumulated from slave labor still exists in our country and should be taxed accordingly.
Tax the wealth, not the income.
This is interesting.
@wildgrass saidVery easy to do with some corps and companies that thrived out of and during the slave trade. I don’t see why there shouldn’t be an extra corporate tax on them. The profits from the slave trade and the sectors that utilised slavery are still sloshing about the economy of all western nations today.
Wealth is a weird thing. I've never had it, but when you look at the stock market and real estate making 30% gains year over year you can have a modest inheritance that came from your plantation-owning great-grandfather of $200,000 that makes more in income than a minimum wage job.
While I disagree with taxation of hard-earned income (you know, working for a living) the ...[text shortened]... abor still exists in our country and should be taxed accordingly.
Tax the wealth, not the income.
@contenchess saidSo just walk past a rape then? Nothing to do with you huh.
@shavixmir
"But that you can be held responsible for allowing it to continue"
Absolutely not.
It's not our job to head hunt and try to fix every transgression and we are not responsible for the actions of others.
@shavixmir saidI don’t know about “responsible” but I don’t have an issue with a nation that got rich from slavery being held ‘accountable’ but holding someone’s direct descendant “responsible” would be an injustice IMO.
On a side note to the blame white-guy attitude of the extreme woke: I was phoned by a colleague a few weeks back who said:
“Thank you. I’m thanking from all the people in Vught.”
“Uh, why?” I asked.
“For saving us from the Nazis in WW2.”
“Oh, uh, why?”
“Well, it was the Scots who booted the Nazis out of Vught. And you are personally reaponsible for that.”
“Mhmmm,” ...[text shortened]... you can be blamed for creating it. But that you can be held responsible for allowing it to continue.
@AverageJoe1 the problem is deeper than slavery. Black people have been denied access to accumulating wealth in the U.S. through laws that prevented them from purchasing property, even if they had the money, and when they did accumulate wealth, their communities were burned to the ground and people were murdered ie the Tulsa race massacre in 1921. It wasn't until 1968 that red lining, the legal outlawing of selling residential property to black people, was outlawed in the U.S. It is common in the U.S. to believe black people are poor due to laziness or a lack of ability. This is not so. Institutions and laws in the U.S. are still infused with racism. The current push by Republicans to restrict voting rights is one more example.
@shavixmir Shaixmir, Well said, VERY well said. On a related note, it is important for people to understand not only macro-racism ie racism embedded in laws and institutions, but the micro-racism white people often unconsciously exhibit. Through the life experiences of Colin Kaepernick, the Netflix documentary, "Colin in Black and White" provides a glimpse into the daily micro-racist assaults people of color experience on a daily basis in the U.S.