At least 160 children died digging tunnels for Hamas

Originally posted by DeepThought
The PLO accepted Israel's right to exist as part of the Oslo accords. If the Israelis accepted the Palestinians' right to a state of their own then they would find their security situation easing. People with nothing have nothing to lose.

I'm talking about Hamas.

Originally posted by Eladar
I'm talking about Hamas.

Why not the other militant groups, some also firing rockets? Why do you think the Israeli statements about their actions bear any simple connection with reality? Why is propaganda a sufficient basis for large scale killing of Palestinian civilians? Why do you run from the relevant history when it is inconvenient?

Originally posted by finnegan
Why not the other militant groups, some also firing rockets? Why do you think the Israeli statements about their actions bear any simple connection with reality? Why is propaganda a sufficient basis for large scale killing of Palestinian civilians? Why do you run from the relevant history when it is inconvenient?

Sure, all the small groups of Islamic individuals that want to see Israel destroyed and believe it is evil for Israel to exist at all.

As long as they are allowed to exist in Gaza there will be problems.

Originally posted by Eladar
I'm talking about Hamas.

The relevant part of your earlier post was as follows:

So you are saying that the Palestinians are in a constant state of war because Israel fired first.

So naturally I assumed you meant all the Palestinians. The Israeli attacks escalated because of Hamas successes from their tunnel complex which happened because of Israeli strikes on Gaza which was prompted by Hamas rocket fire was prompted by Israeli arrests of the Hamas leadership which was prompted by the murder of the three Israeli teenagers which happened in the context of the wider situation. The problem with questions like "who shot first?" is they ignore the basic dynamics which are those of a feud. If Israel wants security they need to ensure the Palestinians actually have something to lose other than their lives.

Originally posted by DeepThought
The relevant part of your earlier post was as follows:

So you are saying that the Palestinians are in a constant state of war because Israel fired first.

So naturally I assumed you meant all the Palestinians. The Israeli attacks escalated because of Hamas successes from their tunnel complex which happened because of Israeli strikes on Gaza ...[text shortened]... ity they need to ensure the Palestinians actually have something to lose other than their lives.

Naturally thought all Palestinians? Why would anyone think that?

It only takes groups living in the population, accepted by the population, to cause the problems.

Originally posted by Eladar

Who fired first?

This is not a squabble in the playground.
Who started it is irrelevant and probably unanswerable.
So grow up.

Originally posted by Eladar
Robbie,

If you want an answer to your question, answer this question:

Who fired first?

Perhaps this question will help too:

Who decided to fight from among a civilian population and hide within that population?

The question was not about who fired first, the question is about the propaganda that Hamas has created this situation as parroted by you, the Israeli army and every other American clone.

As Finnegan has pointed out with a patience that puts him forth as a contender for being canonized, there is a direct and demonstrable correlation between measures to oppress and control the Palestinians and them fighting that oppression. Israel has created this situation not Hamas and i challenge you and every other right wing Israeli sycophant to produce a shred of evidence to the contrary.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Indeed its a lie, a big fat lie that Hamas has created and is responsible for this situation.

Originally posted by Eladar
Sure, all the small groups of Islamic individuals that want to see Israel destroyed and believe it is evil for Israel to exist at all.

As long as they are allowed to exist in Gaza there will be problems.

all the small groups of Islamic individuals that want to see Israel destroyed and believe it is evil for Israel to exist at all.

As long as they are allowed to exist in Gaza there will be problems.

So to be clear, you wish to destroy the 1.82m people living in Gaza or to take away from them the right to political opposition or both.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I don't think one could be so utterly devoid of humanity as to attempt to justify the atrocities that are being committed there unless one is either a psychopath or subject to propaganda to the extent that is suppresses the faculty of conscience. To blame it on Hamas is an insult to our intelligence.

Originally posted by finnegan

all the small groups of Islamic individuals that want to see Israel destroyed and believe it is evil for Israel to exist at all.

As long as they are allowed to exist in Gaza there will be problems.

So to be clear, you wish to destroy the 1.82m people living in Gaza or to take away from them the right to political opposition or both.

No, I'd like to see them get rid of Hamas and all ties to all terrorists. If this can't happen then I'd like to see them move to Egypt where the Egyptians can keep them in check.