07 Dec 04
Today all I here preachers or witnesses saying is that i was saved by the blood of Jesus or Jesus died on the cross to save my sins. God is a just god so sin cannot go without punishment so God used Jesus in our stead. I cant believe this theology. Jesus came saying the kingdom is here, Jesus came showing us Eden, Jesus showed us how to live in Love and in God and we humans killed him for it. He was not sacrificed, he was murdered. I think of this as the second fall, but unlike Adam and Eve, God chose to forgive us of this sin by overpowering death with love. My point is we are not saved in Jesus's blood or in his death, but in his life, his words, and mostly his resurrection.
07 Dec 04
Originally posted by stejo420Thanks for sharing that with us.
Today all I here preachers or witnesses saying is that i was saved by the blood of Jesus or Jesus died on the cross to save my sins. God is a just god so sin cannot go without punishment so God used Jesus in our stead. I cant believe this theology. Jesus came saying the kingdom is here, Jesus came showing us Eden, Jesus showed us how to live in Love and ...[text shortened]... aved in Jesus's blood or in his death, but in his life, his words, and mostly his resurrection.
07 Dec 04
Originally posted by thesonofsaulActually.. its was all in this book of hand-me-down stories and tall tales that was wrote and rewrote through the ages so who really give two flying fooks.
Actually, he sacrificed himself.
Why do you need a book to tell you how to be a good person. Isn't it obvious? Do you not have a conscience that can tell you the difference between whats right and wrong?
07 Dec 04
Originally posted by dk3nnyNo book is needed, true; however, it isn't always so obvious. For instance, take the tendency for some people to post rude, insensitive and misguided posts on internet forums, probably hitting the keyboard keys really hard the whole time, too. Is this a wrong thing to do, or is it justified? The issues get all twisted up, complicated, and very not obvious in no time.
Actually.. its was all in this book of hand-me-down stories and tall tales that was wrote and rewrote through the ages so who really give two flying fooks.
Why do you need a book to tell you how to be a good person. Isn't it obvious? Do you not have a conscience that can tell you the difference between whats right and wrong?
07 Dec 04
1 edit
Originally posted by thesonofsaulSorry if you took offence but this is the debates forum after all and thus i can speak my mind..
No book is needed, true; however, it isn't always so obvious. For instance, take the tendency for some people to post rude, insensitive and misguided posts on internet forums, probably hitting the keyboard keys really hard the whole ...[text shortened]... et all twisted up, complicated, and very not obvious in no time.
In less harsh terms, i just find it strange that so many people have to turn to a book to know how to live when its an awful lot easier to look somewhere else... deep inside oneself.. you know in your heart of hearts when you're doing something wrong.. And whether its Jesus, Allah, Vishnu or Budda looking at you at the end, you know if you've tried your best to be a good person or not then surely that will count for more than having kept holy the sabbath day or a million and 1 other rules the book says.. non?
07 Dec 04
Originally posted by dk3nnyEr ... actually, it isn't obvious.
Why do you need a book to tell you how to be a good person. Isn't it obvious? Do you not have a conscience that can tell you the difference between whats right and wrong?
1. What is treated as a crime in one culture may very well be the norm in another. (e.g. human sacrifice, women having to wear veils etc.)
2. Even within the same culture, people's consciences may drive them in different directions. (e.g. the conscience of a rapist or a pederast may tell them something very different from the conscience of a "regular" guy)
3. What is considered "right" and "wrong" may change in the same culture over time (e.g. views on pre-marital sex, for instance)
One could argue that "right" and "wrong" be defined by majority opinion of the culture at the time; but what then of various instances of minority oppression (e.g. slavery, Holocaust, genocide etc.) over human history?
07 Dec 04
Originally posted by dk3nnyMuch better. Thank you for calming your tone; I'm sure it is appreciated by more people than me. If you make an angry post it just encourages angry replies and then the mud begins to fly and a good discussion thread is wrecked.
Sorry if you took offence but this is the debates forum after all and thus i can speak my mind..
In less harsh terms, i just find it strange that so many people have to turn to a book to know how to live when its an awful lot easier to look somewhere else... deep inside oneself.. you know in your heart of hearts when you're doing something wrong.. And wheth ...[text shortened]... r more than having kept holy the sabbath day or a million and 1 other rules the book says.. non?
I still disagree that it's obvious, though.
07 Dec 04
Originally posted by lucifershammerExactly..
Er ... actually, it [b]isn't obvious.
1. What is treated as a crime in one culture may very well be the norm in another. (e.g. human sacrifice, women having to wear veils etc.)
2. Even within the same culture, people's consciences may drive them in different directions. (e.g. the conscience of a rapist or a pederast may tell them something ...[text shortened]... us instances of minority oppression (e.g. slavery, Holocaust, genocide etc.) over human history?[/b]
You generally know whats right and wrong, as defined within your culture..
You mention human sacrifice.. The incas used to sacrifice humans to their gods to appease them.. Maybe that was in their "bible".. was it right?
The conquistors has a better idea, convert them to our religion/culture.. In effect they wiped out their culture and the majority of their people.
Whos to say that their culture wouldn't have matured beyond the human sacrificing etc to become a very enlighted one.. They were very well versed in the celestial movements and other areas when europe was still in the dark ages, living by the bible..
You mention the conscience of a rapist.. He knows what hes doing is socially wrong(unless insane)... Do you suggest he should scour a bible looking for a passage telling him if he can do it or not or look at the social norm/within himself for whats right?
I think every mature culture evolves with some basic rules about whats right and wrong (don't infringe on others) and doesn't need the bible to tell pple how to live.. What about how the humans who lived for the 100,000s of years before christ came?(unless u believe in the adam and eve and human kind starting 10,000 years ago fable).. how did they know how to live without the bible?
08 Dec 04
Originally posted by dk3nnyIncidentally, most people believe that the Incas were a non-literate
The incas used to sacrifice humans to their gods to appease them.. Maybe that was in their "bible".. was it right?
culture. There are some 'fringe' anthropologists who have a theory
about their having a symbolic language, but it is very dubious.
Today's fun fact was sponsored by the El Dorado Cigarette Company:
Smoke!
Nemesio
08 Dec 04
1 edit
Originally posted by nemesioI didn't mean their "bible" literally, it was as a synonym for their beliefs, which we can presume they also thought were divine and handed down by their god of choice..
Incidentally, most people believe that the Incas were a non-literate
culture. There are some 'fringe' anthropologists who have a theory
about their having a symbolic language, but it is very dubious.
Today's fun fact was sponsored by the El Dorado Cigarette Company:
Smoke!
Nemesio
