10 Feb 06
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Originally posted by StarrmanWhat does that make Will Eisner, then?
Heretic!
Alan Moore is God, Neil Gaiman is merely his prophet.
Or Hergé, for that matter, or the creators of Asterix, or any other Continental Bande Desinée writer that flies below the radar of all the Anglo-saxon comic book writers?
10 Feb 06
Originally posted by DOlivier2004Neither Herge nor Uderzo & Goscinny are what I'd call graphic novelists. They're children's picture book authors and cannot be compared to the detail and maturity of authors of the like of Dark KNight Returns, V for Vendetta or The Watchmen; either for artwork or story.
What does that make Will Eisner, then?
Or Hergé, for that matter, or the creators of Asterix, or any other Continental Bande Desinée writer that flies below the radar of all the Anglo-saxon comic book writers?
10 Feb 06
Originally posted by StarrmanMaturity I'll give you. Not detail, though. In Asterix, a lot of their jokes are based on French word play which is lost in translation from the original language. I've only heard about this second-hand so I can't confirm. Having lived in Paris for some time, though, with French buddies, it seems plausible to me.
Neither Herge nor Uderzo & Goscinny are what I'd call graphic novelists. They're children's picture book authors and cannot be compared to the detail and maturity of authors of the like of Dark KNight Returns, V for Vendetta or The Watchmen; either for artwork or story.
Hergé is a pioneer. Well before Moore and Gibbons collaborated to construct a 3-D view of that street corner that appeared in all 12 issues of Watchmen (the street corner was viewed in differnt angles as though we were looking through a video camera rather than a page) , Hergé, for his books, went to most of the locations where he set his stories, and did painstaking research as to what was in where for buildings, cities, interiors, the works. It looks so effortless, that you'd skip by the panels without ever appreciating how much work it took to actually make those settings authentic.
They may be books aimed at children, but by any stretch they'd be graphic novelists in my book. I've been starting to read the French BD market and the more I read them, the more I appreciate them. A lot of them makes the American and UK books look amateurish in comparison , though from the writing point of view, no one has matched Alan Moore yet. Key word: Yet.
10 Feb 06
Originally posted by DOlivier2004Have you read From Hell? I only just did so recently, despite being a Moore fan for a long time. It stunned me, the breadth of research, plots within plots within plots. It's a serious work of imagination and detail.
Maturity I'll give you. Not detail, though. In Asterix, a lot of their jokes are based on French word play which is lost in translation from the original language. I've only heard about this second-hand so I can't confirm. Having lived in Paris for some time, though, with French buddies, it seems plausible to me.
Hergé is a pioneer. Well before ...[text shortened]... though from the writing point of view, no one has matched Alan Moore yet. Key word: Yet.
I wasn't aware of what you've said about Herge and whilst impressive, it does make me wonder why he wasted such attention to detail on an audience which wouldn't necessarily appreciate it.
Frank Millar is also worth a mention whilst we are on the subject.
10 Feb 06
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Originally posted by StarrmanI haven't read From Hell yet, but will do at some stage.
Have you read From Hell? I only just did so recently, despite being a Moore fan for a long time. It stunned me, the breadth of research, plots within plots within plots. It's a serious work of imagination and detail.
I wasn't aware of what you've said about Herge and whilst impressive, it does make me wonder why he wasted such attention to detail on ssarily appreciate it.
Frank Millar is also worth a mention whilst we are on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herg%C3%A9
The link above is a summary of Hergé's life and it includes how he had to work under Nazi occupation in Belgium. I think his work in France and Belgium is appreciated so much that there are Tintin only stores in Paris, and there is a section of the Centre Belge des Bandes Dessinées in Brussels devoted entirely to him. I guess the Anglo-Saxon view of comics in general as just for kids may seem as though his work is unappreciated, and it's a shame.
Frank Miller, I think, is overrated. He did some good stuff in the 80s (Batman: Year One and his Daredevil run). I never liked The Dark Knight Returns, hated the sequel (he tried to do too much and the art was worse than in the 80s!) , and his Sin City graphic novels were too gratuitous for my taste. But that's just me.
10 Feb 06
Originally posted by DOlivier2004Frank Miller is a bit overrated however I thoroughly enjoyed many of the Sin City novels. The Dark Knight Returns, to me, was a mediocre and convoluded story.
Frank Miller, I think, is overrated. He did some good stuff in the 80s (Batman: Year One and his Daredevil run). I never liked LOTDK, hated the sequel (he tried to do too much and the art was worse than in the 80s!) , and his Sin City graphic novels were too gratuitous for my taste. But that's just me.
10 Feb 06
Originally posted by DOlivier2004At some point?! That's just not good enough. Jimmy Corrigan is THE graphic novel to read for a so-called "real life" tale.
I don't want that Spectre anywhere near my collection!!!
I'm kidding. No I haven't read Jimmy Corrigan yet. I'll pick it up at some point.
When it comes to traditional comics though, 100 Bullets is my current obsession.
10 Feb 06
Originally posted by darvlayI don't agree at all. The Dark Knight Returns will always be a monumental point in the history of Graphic Novels. I conceed however, that my total Batman fetish may allowme to see things others do not.
Frank Miller is a bit overrated however I thoroughly enjoyed many of the Sin City novels. The Dark Knight Returns, to me, was a mediocre and convoluded story.
I haven't read any JC, but I will try and check him out.