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  1. 15 Dec '11 01:53
    A political cartoon from the Houston Chronicle.

    http://blog.chron.com/nickanderson/2011/12/bad-santa/

    .
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Dec '11 13:20
    Originally posted by moon1969
    A political cartoon from the Houston Chronicle.

    http://blog.chron.com/nickanderson/2011/12/bad-santa/

    .
    What a stupid cartoon.

    Half the people in the US don't pay income tax as it is and a payroll tax break, if anything, hurts most the SS trust fund and Medicare.

    Moreover, no serious proposal out there is advocating further tax cuts for the rich as this time. So the timing of the proposal is just plain odd.
  3. 15 Dec '11 15:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    What a stupid cartoon.

    Half the people in the US don't pay income tax as it is and a payroll tax break, if anything, hurts most the SS trust fund and Medicare.

    Moreover, no serious proposal out there is advocating further tax cuts for the rich as this time. So the timing of the proposal is just plain odd.
    Looks like Congress is brokering a deal to extend the payroll tax break. Likely done deal.

    Also, it is always on the table as to whether to maintain the Bush "temporary" tax cuts on the top 1%.

    Negotiations are happening now in an effort to avoid the automatic reduction in expenditures in 2013. Pubs don't like the $600 billion being cut from defense. But any deal must increase revenue or the President will veto it. So, yes, tax cuts for the wealthy are in play.

    The Republicans are advocating further tax cuts for the rich at this time by advocating to renew the "temporary" tax cuts on the top 1% which will expire unless actively renewed, while at the same time fighting against the payroll tax break for the working middle class. Continued class warfare by the Republicans against the working middle class, and a continued imposition of a transfer of wealth from the working middle class to the top 1%.

    The tax rate on the top 1% is at an all-time low. Where are the jobs. The rich hoard the cash and/or buy luxury retail items domestically and overseas. Not many job creators. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Crumbs don't even make it.
  4. 15 Dec '11 16:48
    Originally posted by sh76
    What a stupid cartoon.

    Half the people in the US don't pay income tax as it is and a payroll tax break, if anything, hurts most the SS trust fund and Medicare.

    Moreover, no serious proposal out there is advocating further tax cuts for the rich as this time. So the timing of the proposal is just plain odd.
    The thing is that it is the most common belief that the wealthy don't pay taxes. When marginal rates were much higher, that was partly true. There were many shelters and loopholes. While a few may still exist, it's nowhere near what it used to be, and one can easily verify who pays taxes and who doesn't.

    My personal cynicism tells me that weakening the SS trust fund is intentional, and is a prelude to eliminating it, and reconstituting Social Security as a federal welfare system under the general fund budget.
  5. 15 Dec '11 17:10
    Has there been a Christmas in recent history where the Republicans held the majority haven't threatened a shut-down?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Dec '11 17:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Has there been a Christmas in recent history where the Republicans held the majority haven't threatened a shut-down?
    Has these been a threatened shutdown in recent history when there hasn't been a Democrat in the White House?
  7. 15 Dec '11 20:16
    Originally posted by sh76
    Has these been a threatened shutdown in recent history when there hasn't been a Democrat in the White House?
    No, but the White House has never threatened a shut down.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Dec '11 21:36
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    No, but the White House has never threatened a shut down.
    The White House doesn't have to threaten a shut down. All it has to do is threaten to veto appropriations that would avert a shut down and that is the exact same thing.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    15 Dec '11 21:45
    Originally posted by moon1969
    Looks like Congress is brokering a deal to extend the payroll tax break. Likely done deal.

    Also, it is always on the table as to whether to maintain the Bush "temporary" tax cuts on the top 1%.

    Negotiations are happening now in an effort to avoid the automatic reduction in expenditures in 2013. Pubs don't like the $600 billion being cut from def ...[text shortened]... Not many job creators. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Crumbs don't even make it.
    I thought the Dems had already caved on a surcharge for the wealthy to pay for extension of the payroll tax cut.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    15 Dec '11 23:56
    A Democratic source told CNN on Wednesday that Senate Democrats now plan to drop the so-called "millionaires tax" and will offer a new proposal instead.

    No further details were immediately available on the new proposal, first reported by CNN, which emerged from a White House meeting between Senate Democratic leaders and Obama on Wednesday afternoon, the source said.

    Obama for months has argued that the wealthy should pay what he terms their fair share of taxes.

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California, shrugged off the concession on Thursday, saying there would be further opportunities to balance the tax burden.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/politics/congress-payroll-tax-cut/index.html?hpt=hp_bn3


    The white flag is hoisted again by the Dems even though their proposal has overwhelming public support.
  11. 16 Dec '11 02:25
    Originally posted by sh76
    The White House doesn't have to threaten a shut down. All it has to do is threaten to veto appropriations that would avert a shut down and that is the exact same thing.
    Oh, you mean that there hasn't been a White House who would just cave to the threats? Unfortunately, Obama did just that last year.
  12. 16 Dec '11 02:25
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    A Democratic source told CNN on Wednesday that Senate Democrats now plan to drop the so-called "millionaires tax" and will offer a new proposal instead.

    No further details were immediately available on the new proposal, first reported by CNN, which emerged from a White House meeting between Senate Democratic leaders and Obama on Wednesday afternoon, t ...[text shortened]... flag is hoisted again by the Dems even though their proposal has overwhelming public support.
    Case in point.
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    16 Dec '11 14:30
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Oh, you mean that there hasn't been a White House who would just cave to the threats? Unfortunately, Obama did just that last year.
    You're missing the point. When there's a government shutdown, it happens because the two sides couldn't come to an agreement. The proposal you don't like will always be the threat and the proposal you do like will always be the refusal to cave to said threat. But there's nothing inherent about a shutdown that makes it the fault of either side.
  14. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    18 Dec '11 14:26
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The thing is that it is the most common belief that the wealthy don't pay taxes. When marginal rates were much higher, that was partly true. There were many shelters and loopholes. While a few may still exist, it's nowhere near what it used to be, and one can easily verify who pays taxes and who doesn't.

    My personal cynicism tells me that weakening ...[text shortened]... and reconstituting Social Security as a federal welfare system under the general fund budget.
    No, it is more sinister than that. Totally eliminating SS as a federal project and privatizing it. Yeah, sure, THAT will certainly solve all the problems. Like making the SS system go bankrupt within 20 years. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    To me this is abrogation of responsibility. Republicans would love nothing better than to have no federal budget but still have federal taxes coming in so they can keep their rich patrons even richer while the average Joe gets further and further behind.

    Don't think that was in the minds of the developers of the constitution.
  15. 21 Dec '11 23:33 / 1 edit
    Rove thinks that the Republicans messed up, and basically says that they should just cave and attack the President when his back is turned.

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/karl-rove-says-house-gop-should-throw-in-the-towel-on-payroll-tax-video.php?ref=fpa