19 Nov 07
Originally posted by Thequ1ckThe presents?
Nearly that time of year again when the world stops turning
so that a bunch of dove collared psychos can celebrate a 2000 year old
lynching.
Why do we HAVE to celebrate Christmas??
The way I see it, very few people celebrate the lynching (though I think you'll find that's Easter) these days. Besides, throughout human history, people have celebrated something around this time of year, in fact, that's why this date was chosen to celebrate christmas, as it meshed in well with the winter solstice festivals of the pagans the christians were trying to convert. It all boils down to winter solstice when the sun is at its weakest and then starts to get stronger. Easter is the spring equinox, which represents the victory of the sun over its death since the days finally become longer than the nights. The two biggest christian festivals and the two biggest pagan festivals.
We have to celebrate something, may as well have a narrative to it. Go for the commercial christmas if you don't like the baggage, that's what I do.
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by agrysonHumph! OK I agree it makes sense to do a bit of celebrating once a
The presents?
The way I see it, very few people celebrate the lynching (though I think you'll find that's Easter) these days. Besides, throughout human history, people have celebrated something around this time of year, in fact, that's why this date was chosen to celebrate christmas, as it meshed in well with the winter solstice festivals of the pagans the ...[text shortened]... ive to it. Go for the commercial christmas if you don't like the baggage, that's what I do.
year and I don't mind the pagans so much but it would be nice to have
an opt-out.
What would the Christians say if the atheists wanted a day of the year
to celebrate 'not knowing' or 'not believing in God'?
19 Nov 07
I can see his point, but not neccessarily the examples why.
Christmas does annoy me at times, because it's not just about one day anymore, How early do adverts on TV/magazines start spouting christmas stuff before December even begins, 3 months before??
It is a good day to spend with the family (usual arguements aside!) wether or not one is religious, and it's always good for kids if you have any. But it is far too overhyped now, and the pressure to deliver on the presents front can be too much financially, especially given the current credit crunch, not to mention that Fairpak fiasco last year...
And I hate hearing christmas 'songs' in shops when it's not even December yet!!
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by Thequ1ckI think your problem is solved by the "not caring" option. Think about it, as atheists, we get all the best bits of christmas, and other winter solstice celebrations, without having to do the rest of the unnecessary stuff. Let the christians have their day, it's basically a commercial enterprise anyway, with the vast majority using it as an excuse to bring family together. Only a minority take the religious aspect very very seriously, while the rest see it as a formality before tucking into christmas dinner.
Humph! OK I agree it makes sense to do a bit of celebrating once a
year and I don't mind the pagans so much but it would be nice to have
an opt-out.
What would the Christians say if the atheists wanted a day of the year
to celebrate 'not knowing' or 'not believing in God'?
Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it.
Funny story though, my mum tells this story of an atheist couple who wanted to be honest with their children, so told them that santa didn't really exist, christmas was a religious festival, and as a family, they weren't going to celebrate it like otehr families. The children heard what was going on in other houses and were apparently convinced that their parents were not letting santa get into the house and ran away. They didn't get very far of course, kids rarely do, but it sure gave the parents a fright. The point of telling the story is to show that while it might be childish to believe in all the hocus pocus, and downright rude for the religious festival to be so blatantly in your face, it's kind of needed. Just as kids grow out of believing in Santa, people are starting to grow out of believing in god, but you have to let them do it themselves, you can't force them to.
Sit there, enjoy the presents and the banquet, opt out of the religious components and people will start to join you in time, but don't give up a party based on your atheism.
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by agrysonReminds me of another story (not real).
I think your problem is solved by the "not caring" option. Think about it, as atheists, we get all the best bits of christmas, and other winter solstice celebrations, without having to do the rest of the unnecessary stuff. Let the christians have their day, it's basically a commercial enterprise anyway, with the vast majority using it as an excuse to bring f ...[text shortened]... eople will start to join you in time, but don't give up a party based on your atheism.
A young guy gets a new female housemate and they hit it off.
He invites his mum over for Christmas and as they're tucking into
their dinner, his mum can't help but notice a certain chemistry between
them. She questions him on this but he says that they're only friends.
A few weeks go by and the girl finds her favourite silver ladel
has gone missing. Realising that it was last seen at Christmas, she
gently puts it to her housemate that his mum may have mistakenly
picked it up. The young guy, not wanting to accuse his own mum,
decides to write a letter :
'Dear mum, since your last visit our silver ladel has gone missing,
now I'm not saying that you have taken it and I'm not saying you
haven't but the fact remains, it has gone missing since your last visit.'
Another week goes by and he gets a letter back from his mum
'Dear son, thank you for your last letter. Regarding the ladel,
I'm not saying that you do have an interest in your housemate
and I'm not saying that you don't, but the fact remains, if she was
sleeping in her own bed, she would have found the ladel by now'.
Only clean joke I know.
Anyway, you hit the nail on the head, Christmas is great for children
and that's about it.
You're argument is fine for the middle and upper classes but what
about the working class and downright poor out there?
How do they feel with all that pressure to buy presents they can't
afford for their children?
19 Nov 07
Originally posted by Thequ1ckLOL! Recc'd
Really? Has he got an alibi?
As for the poor out there, yes it is a shame that so much pressure is placed to buy presents, but there's the rub, the negative aspects of christmas tend to come from the commercial version, not the christian one.
In fairness, we can't blame christians for the cost of christmas. I too wish there was an atheistic version, but it too would just get commercialised, so we may as well make do with what we got, and make sure blame for its downsides is aimed at who deserves it.
19 Nov 07
1 edit
Originally posted by agrysonBrilliant!! You are a fountainhead of inspiration. Simple solution is: get one atheist to commit to voluntary crucifixion, a female would be nice so as to get gender balance. I suggest Summer Solstice so as to balance out the celebratory year with Christmas.
LOL! Recc'd
In fairness, we can't blame christians for the cost of christmas. I too wish there was an atheistic version, but it too would just get commercialised,
Hmm….Thequick, you wouldn’t happen to be female would you? After all, tis’ appropriate the honor should go to the one who got the idea rolling. No matter, gender alteration could be arranged for such an important sacrifice. Instead of Father Christmas, the kiddies could call you Mother ______, help me here, I’m a bit stuck for the name. But that will come later I suppose.
Btw…we capitalists will certainly enjoy the boost to the ol’ economy. Not only the obvious gift buying but just think of the music industry which will need to write appropriate jingles along with CD's, DVD's and the MTV crowd. Thanks loads! 😀