1. Germany
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    01 Feb '16 19:40
    Originally posted by normbenign
    It doesn't except that it would involve devolving our own quite successful government model, with no guarantee that the new model would work as well as it does in a much smaller and more culturally insulated nation. Is it worth the risk?
    There is no "guarantee" but you haven't really brought forward any reason why you think it could not work other than "the US is not Scandinavia."

    By the way, the US is not as "diverse" as you think it is - it has a dominant language, national identity and religion, which is more than you can say for most European countries. For instance, Belgium has neither of the three despite being the size of a small US state.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    01 Feb '16 19:58
    Bernie Sanders (Still Running)

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  3. Standard memberno1marauder
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    01 Feb '16 20:321 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    There is no "guarantee" but you haven't really brought forward any reason why you think it could not work other than "the US is not Scandinavia."

    By the way, the US is not as "diverse" as you think it is - it has a dominant language, national identity and religion, which is more than you can say for most European countries. For instance, Belgium has neither of the three despite being the size of a small US state.
    Belgium is 58% Roman Catholic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Belgium); that is one group being far more dominant than any is in the US. Even if you assume all Protestant sects count as "one religion" they comprise only 46.5% of people in the US.http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/
  4. Standard memberQuarl
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    01 Feb '16 21:17
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    He wants to make the USA more like Denmark and Sweden. That is what he has stated. The question is are we better off like the Scandinavian countries?
    Why would anyone seeking to be president of the U.S.A. say he doesn't want the U.S. to be more like the U.S.?

    The idea seems absolutely daft to me:
    Would a prospective leader of Great Britain say he wants to be more like Italy?
    Would a prospective leader of France say he desires France to be more like Spain?

    I submit that if anyone, vying for leadership in those countries, expressed wishes similar to these proposals or what the poster ascribed to Sanders, they would be dismissed out of hand.
  5. Germany
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    01 Feb '16 21:32
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Belgium is 58% Roman Catholic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Belgium); that is one group being far more dominant than any is in the US. Even if you assume all Protestant sects count as "one religion" they comprise only 46.5% of people in the US.http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/
    Admittedly religion is a bit of a debatable issue, although I would count "Christianity" as one religion and it is certainly far more dominant in the US than in Belgium, where in any case many of these "Roman Catholics" might see a church once a year, if that.
  6. Germany
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    01 Feb '16 21:34
    Originally posted by Quarl
    Why would anyone seeking to be president of the U.S.A. say he doesn't want the U.S. to be more like the U.S.?

    The idea seems absolutely daft to me:
    Would a prospective leader of Great Britain say he wants to be more like Italy?
    Would a prospective leader of France say he desires France to be more like Spain?

    I submit that if anyone, vying for leaders ...[text shortened]... to these proposals or what the poster ascribed to Sanders, they would be dismissed out of hand.
    Actually it is fairly common for European politicians to, for example, say that their education system should be more like the - well-performing - Finnish education system.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    01 Feb '16 22:28
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Actually it is fairly common for European politicians to, for example, say that their education system should be more like the - well-performing - Finnish education system.
    11 Ways Finland’s Education System Shows Us that “Less is More”.

    April 15, 2015 / kellyj1111

    When I left my 7th grade math classroom for my Fulbright research assignment in Finland I thought I would come back from this experience with more inspiring, engaging, innovative lessons. I expected to have great new ideas on how to teach my mathematics curriculum and I would revamp my lessons so that I could include more curriculum, more math and get students to think more, talk more and do more math.

    When I arrived in Finland I did not find big flashy innovative thought provoking math lessons. I did not find students who were better at mathematics or knew more math content. In fact the Jr. High and High school math classrooms have been rather typical of what I have experienced in Indiana. And most of the struggles (like students not remembering their basic math facts) were the same. The instruction and classroom structure of a math classroom in Finland follows the basic formula that has been performed by math teachers for centuries: The teachers go over homework, they present a lesson (some of the kids listen and some don’t), and then they assign homework. While some lectures have been wonderful and I have gotten to observe some fantastic teachers, I would say that on the whole I have seen more engaging and interactive secondary math instruction from teachers in the United States. It is rare to see a math lesson that is measurably better than those found in my district and I have seen several that were actually far worse.

    So, what is the difference? If the instruction in secondary mathematics is the same or sometimes worse than those found in the US, why are Finnish students succeeding and ours are failing? The difference is not the instruction. Good teaching is good teaching and it can be found in both Finland and in the US. (The same can be said for bad teaching.) The difference is less tangible and more fundamental. Finland truly believes “Less is More.” This national mantra is deeply engrained into the Finnish mindset and is the guiding principal to Finland’s educational philosophy.

    Conversely in the US we truly believe “more is more” and we constantly desire and pursue more in all areas of our lives. We are obsessed with all things new, shiny and exciting and are constantly wanting to upgrade our lives. Out with the old in with the new! This mentality of “more is more” creeps into all areas of our lives and it confuses and stifles our education system.

    We can’t even stick to ONE philosophy of education long enough to see if it actually works. We are constantly trying new methods, ideas and initiatives. We keep adding more and more to our plates without removing any of the past ideas. Currently we believe “more” is the answer to all of our education problems— everything can be solved with MORE classes, longer days, MORE homework, MORE assignments, MORE pressure, MORE content, MORE meetings, MORE after school tutoring, and of course MORE testing! All this is doing is creating MORE burnt out teachers, MORE stressed out students and MORE frustration.

    http://fillingmymap.com/2015/04/15/11-ways-finlands-education-system-shows-us-that-less-is-more/
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    01 Feb '16 23:00
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Belgium is 58% Roman Catholic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Belgium); that is one group being far more dominant than any is in the US. Even if you assume all Protestant sects count as "one religion" they comprise only 46.5% of people in the US.http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/
    Plus you have the Pope out there championing left winged messages like a cheerleader for Bernie.

    Who said church and state should not mix? 😵
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    01 Feb '16 23:002 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Belgium is 58% Roman Catholic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Belgium); that is one group being far more dominant than any is in the US. Even if you assume all Protestant sects count as "one religion" they comprise only 46.5% of people in the US.http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/
  10. Standard memberSoothfast
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    01 Feb '16 23:02
    Originally posted by Quarl
    Why would anyone seeking to be president of the U.S.A. say he doesn't want the U.S. to be more like the U.S.?

    The idea seems absolutely daft to me:
    Would a prospective leader of Great Britain say he wants to be more like Italy?
    Would a prospective leader of France say he desires France to be more like Spain?

    I submit that if anyone, vying for leaders ...[text shortened]... to these proposals or what the poster ascribed to Sanders, they would be dismissed out of hand.
    Certainly no prospective leaders in any other country on Earth is proposing emulating the US health insurance "system"...
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    01 Feb '16 23:07
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    If you had tried to read the article as a unitary whole rather than trying to pick out parts out of context to try to smear Bernie, you'd realize he had abandoned any such doubts by the time he became Mayor of Burlington:

    He ran for mayor of Burlington in 1981 as an independent, and he crafted a hyperlocal platform that cut across party lines—he oppos ...[text shortened]... th your ranting about him wanting to abolish freedom and have the government control everything?
    "The incident only hardened Sanders' skepticism of corporate power. Television, Sanders wrote in 1979, was a particularly pernicious evil, rooted in "the well-tested Hitlerian principle that people should be treated as morons and bombarded over and over again with the same simple phrases and ideas." Television stations were "attempting to brainwash people into submission and helplessness"

    The quote above proves my point. Bernie sees corporate America as the boogie man. As such, how can local government destroy them? It takes an all powerful person in the Oval Office to do that.
  12. Standard memberSoothfast
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    01 Feb '16 23:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    The quote above proves my point. Bernie sees corporate America as the boogie man. As such, how can local government destroy them? It takes an all powerful person in the Oval Office to do that.
    No, it takes a movement. Something that Sanders has been saying all along.
  13. Joined
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    01 Feb '16 23:254 edits
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    No, it takes a movement. Something that Sanders has been saying all along.
    You know, I'm starting to get "jazzed" about Bernie winning it all.

    Soon I can stop working.

    Who needs these corporate task masters?

    I have a natural right to food, water, shelter, free college, health care, and anything else that tickles my fancy. Screw'em all.
  14. Standard memberSoothfast
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    01 Feb '16 23:42
    Originally posted by whodey
    You know, I'm starting to get "jazzed" about Bernie winning it all.

    Soon I can stop working.

    Who needs these corporate task masters?

    I have a natural right to food, water, shelter, free college, health care, and anything else that tickles my fancy. Screw'em all.
    It took you 4 edits to crap that post out?
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    02 Feb '16 00:09
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    It took you 4 edits to crap that post out?
    Hater's gonna hate.
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