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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 28 Jul '11 21:35
    His plan is so bad that he knows the credit rating agencies are going to slam it, but it's "beyond his control."

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/boehner-beyond-my-control-how-ratings-agencies-treat-my-debt-limit-plan.php?ref=fpa

    Not that it matters. It looks like he doesn't even have the votes from his own party.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/07/this_is_huge.php

    Whatever happens, his days are numbered.
  2. 28 Jul '11 21:45
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Obama has caved in to the Republicans time and again, and gone well beyond "reasonable." But this time, he may not have to. The Republicans appear to be imploding.
  3. 28 Jul '11 21:52
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    The healthcare bill is premised on the Republican proposal of the 1990s. It's a giveaway to insurance companies. The Republicans, with help from Obama, killed any chance of a real health care reform, involving single payer or at least a public option. It got through Congress because Republicans allowed it through.
  4. 28 Jul '11 21:55
    I guess there's still some hope for a vote late tonight. But Boehner is showing himself to be completely ineffectual. I guess he needs some help from Cantor, whom they threw under the bus last week because of his mouth.

    Oh what a web we weave...

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/breaking-short-of-votes-gop-leadership-postpones-vote-on-debt-limit-bill.php?ref=fpblg
  5. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    28 Jul '11 22:04
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    [The health care reform act] got through Congress because Republicans allowed it through.
    That's certainly a new way of looking at history.
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    28 Jul '11 22:07
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    That's certainly a new way of looking at history.
    It certainly is since all but one Republican in the House voted against it (and none voted for the final bill) and every Republican in the Senate supported a filibuster effort.
  7. 28 Jul '11 22:13
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It certainly is since all but one Republican in the House voted against it (and none voted for the final bill) and every Republican in the Senate supported a filibuster effort.
    No, it was the Maine women and Lieberman who dictated the terms.

    But the universal mandate - that was a Republican idea, supported even by Orinn Hatch back in the 1990s. This was a Republican idea originally, as was Cap & Trade.
  8. 28 Jul '11 22:14
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    His plan is so bad that he knows the credit rating agencies are going to slam it, but it's "beyond his control."

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/boehner-beyond-my-control-how-ratings-agencies-treat-my-debt-limit-plan.php?ref=fpa

    Not that it matters. It looks like he doesn't even have the votes from his own party.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/07/this_is_huge.php

    Whatever happens, his days are numbered.
    Assuming Boehner's days are indeed numbered as a result of the senselessness of his proposals, who exactly would step up to fill the void?

    Its not like there are many prominent Republicans out there who are preaching something significantly different from what he has been advocating so far, if Im not mistaken the GOP seems almost universally committed to the belief that the only way out of this crisis is to dismantle social security while gratifying the rich with tax cuts.
  9. 28 Jul '11 22:15
    Meanwhile, Boehner is still trying to "whip" the tea partiers into shape. His leadership is made or broken here. Of course, the bill is DOA once it reaches the Senate anyway, but if he can't even pass the bill he will have no negotiation leverage other than to just sink the economy in a tantrum.
  10. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    28 Jul '11 22:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    No, it was the Maine women and Lieberman who dictated the terms.

    But the universal mandate - that was a Republican idea, supported even by Orinn Hatch back in the 1990s. This was a Republican idea originally, as was Cap & Trade.
    No Republican senators voted for Obama's health care reform. Period.

    As for Lieberman, he had his own faults, and he certainly made a fuss until Democrats conceded to his demands, but he still supported the final bill. And yet, you can bet your bottom dollar that he wouldn't have supported a public option, public pressure and Democratic caucas pressure and presidential pressure and all aside--that's why there was the hold-up in the Senate in the first place.

    As for your pointing out the Republican hypocricy on their own policy platform, I don't dispute what you're saying.
  11. 28 Jul '11 22:20
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    No Republican senators voted for Obama's health care reform. Period.

    As for Lieberman, he had his own faults, and he certainly made a fuss until Democrats conceded to his demands, but he still supported the final bill. And yet, you can bet your bottom dollar that he wouldn't have supported a public option, public pressure and Democratic caucas pressu ...[text shortened]... the Republican hypocricy on their own policy platform, I don't dispute what you're saying.
    Well, the Maine women declined to filibuster, which these days is the equivalent of voting for a bill.
  12. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    28 Jul '11 22:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Well, the Maine women declined to filibuster, which these days is the equivalent of voting for a bill.
    Source?

    Actually, the final vote was 60-40, anyway, wasn't it? So it wouldn't have mattered whether the cloture vote were 60-38 or 60-40.
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    28 Jul '11 22:32
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Which troll with a new account are you?
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    28 Jul '11 22:33
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Source?

    Actually, the final vote was 60-40, anyway, wasn't it? So it wouldn't have mattered whether the cloture vote were 60-38 or 60-40.
    All 58 Democrats and two independents voted to break the filibuster on the bill, which Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid released Wednesday night. The Nevada Democrat took parts of proposals passed earlier this year through two congressional committees to build the sweeping $848 billion proposal.

    The Republicans mustered 39 votes. Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, did not vote.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-care-bill-democrats-overcome-gop-filibuster-bid/story?id=9141122
  15. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    28 Jul '11 22:33
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2010/12/29/majority-either-like-healthcare-law-or-want-it-more-liberal

    Not to mention the obvious fact that opinions have likely evolved since 2010.