Originally posted by stammerWell, I agree with you. That's why I didn't support Bush either....
I know some people who have had to serve in Iraq too......and Clinton is looking better every day Bush and co. are in office.....
Say what you want to say about Clinton, it's not his party that's removing chairmanships of those supporting funding for the troops....Chris Smith is a Republican, and a pretty fari-right one at that....
FWIW, Clinton didn ...[text shortened]... House.
To be fair, the DNC deserves just as much blame for what's going on as Bush does.....
Chancremechanic -
Telling someone to go out and research your point is a cheap way to make outrageous claims without supporting them. Support your point yourself. If you want Robert Patterson to support the claim, let Robert Patterson make the claim and keep your mouth shut.
I want to hear from you why you think your claim is legit. I am not going to spend days of my life reading a book so I can support your claims.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungYou consider sitting down and simply reading a book "research"? Are you too academically challenged to do this simple task called READING? Why should I type what is already printed? Get your lazy butt over to the library and check the book out...or don't, and remain ignorant...your loss. 😲 🙄 😴
Chancremechanic -
Telling someone to go out and research your point is a cheap way to make outrageous claims without supporting them. Support your point yourself. If you want Robert Patterson to support the claim, let Robert Patterson make the claim and keep your mouth shut.
I want to hear from you why you think your claim is legit. I am not going to spend days of my life reading a book so I can support your claims.
Originally posted by chancremechanicYes, going out of my way to find a book I am not interested in and then reading it and analyzing it to see if the claims it makes and the support for them are sound is research.
You consider sitting down and simply reading a book "research"? Are you too academically challenged to do this simple task called READING? Why should I type what is already printed? Get your lazy butt over to the library and check the book out...or don't, and remain ignorant...your loss. 😲 🙄 😴
I can read. I choose not to spend the time to read a book I am not interested in so that you don't have to think or spend the time to support your points in your own words. You made the claim; you support the claim.
You are using the cheap strategy many creationists use: "Evolution has been proven wrong! Here is a list of fifty websites with pages and pages of dense writing that proves it! If any one of those websites has even one point disproving evolution, then evolution is wrong! Read and analyze them all and if you show that all of them are flawed, why I have more reading for you to do!"
I am not going to spend my time to support your point. At this time you made a specific claim accusing Clinton of a specific immoral act, and this claim is unsupported. I don't believe you and I am asking you to explain it to me, not to send me off on a research project to read someone else's book.
Now get off your lazy butt and defend your claim. If you have a short passage of someone else's work you think will aid in my understanding, quote it here. Don't make me go find it.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungAs much as I hate cut-n-paste, you're gonna make me do it 'cause I'm too tired to type my own words..hope you don't mind...
Yes, going out of my way to find a book I am not interested in and then reading it and analyzing it to see if the claims it makes and the support for them are sound is research.
I can read. I choose not to spend the time to re ...[text shortened]... id in my understanding, quote it here. Don't make me go find it.
From the officer entrusted with our nation's nuclear codes: proof that Bill Clinton cared little for national security and put every American in mortal danger
When he was tapped to accompany President Clinton and carry the nuclear "football" that contains the top-secret codes the President needs in case of nuclear war, Lieutenant Colonel Robert "Buzz" Patterson was proud and grateful. He had already put his life on the line for his country many times as he flew combat missions over the Persian Gulf and Bosnia, and he was honored to take on this new and awesome responsibility.
But when he entered the Clinton White House, his gratitude and awe soon gave way to shock, revulsion, and sorrow - as he saw first-hand the cavalier and self-serving way Slick Willie and his henchmen went about the business of running the country. In Dereliction of Duty: An Eyewitness Account of How Bill Clinton Compromised America's National Security, Patterson tells the whole story. Day in and day out in the Clinton White House, he witnessed the President's contempt for the military, his indifference to important issues except insofar as they served his own political or personal purposes, and his reduction of the Office of the Presidency to a playground for his own ambition and thirst for sordid perks.
Patterson not only had numerous opportunities to see Clinton's irresponsibility and neglect of his duties: he also witnessed Hillary's furious, profane rages and relentless shifting of blame to subordinates; the general disdain of Clinton staffers toward the military; and much more. The Clinton White House more closely resembled a college fraternity house than the seat of government of the most powerful nation on earth - and it all led, Patterson argues compellingly, to our armed forces and intelligence services falling into such a demoralized, unprepared state that a disaster was just waiting to happen. That disaster happened on September 11, 2001.
Just when you thought you'd heard it all about Clinton
Why the biggest security risk in the Clinton White House was the Slick One himself (plus details of the day he lost his copy of top-secret nuclear codes!)
How Slick Willie lost a crucial chance to strike strategic targets in Iraq because he wouldn't let his golf game be interrupted long enough to examine the situation and give the necessary orders
The day the President neglected to change the country's top secret nuclear codes: he was too distracted by the Monica Lewinsky story breaking in the Washington Post
Osama bin Laden: how he came close to being caught on Clinton's watch -- except that the President hesitated too long in deciding to give the order
Clinton's dishonesty: how it extended to everything from his golf game to his extramarital affairs and - most ominously of all - to his priorities as president and his concern for our national security
Military personnel: forbidden to wear their uniforms inside the White House - by order of Hillary Clinton!
What Clinton finally did to lose virtually all the faith and trust that military men had placed in him
Clinton's cynicism: how he was able to turn on grief when needed to gain political points - and turn it off just as quickly
The subtle and not-so-subtle racism on display regularly among Clinton staffers
Hillary: "Harsh, difficult, and unpredictable" - and more about why administration officials fled from their desks and scurried into hiding places to avoid having to deal with her
How the Clintons spent more than $15,000 of the taxpayers' money to airlift Chelsea's forgotten backpack of books to their vacation spot in the Virgin Islands
Slick Willie's mood swings: with Hillary around, it was fruit, veggie plates, and ever-so-correct behavior. When she was gone? Booze, babes and barbecue
A Whitewater smoking gun? The mysterious file box that was Hillary's most important - and most closely watched - piece of luggage
How Clinton revealed his ignorance of and contempt for the military in ways that any military officer would notice
The direct correlation between Clinton's political trouble at home and his trips abroad - which cost American taxpayers half a billion dollars
Air Force One: how Slick Willie tried to turn it into a sexual playground (behaving in a manner that would have landed him in the brig if he had been a military man)
How the Clinton White House neglected basic understandings of military and defense policy - and compounded this ignorance with arrogance toward the men in uniform
Why Clinton policy in Somalia was a clear recipe for disaster
Clinton's response to terrorist attacks throughout his administration: lots of talk and little action
The appalling details of the day Slick Willie gave the Secret Service the slip and left the man holding the nuclear football to walk back to the White House alone
How Hillary revealed her basic ignorance of the nature and parameters of the United Nations mission in Bosnia that she was helping to oversee
When President Clinton met Lieutenant Colonel Patterson's wife - and eyed her as if he were in a singles bar
The shocking reason why Clinton had to discontinue his jogging regimen
Inside the Clinton White House: why it seemed disorganized and highly undisciplined to military men and career government service officers
The bold-faced and outrageous lie that Clinton repeated over 130 times during his 1996 campaign for reelection
How the Clinton administration time and time again attempted to cover up the shortcomings of its policies, rather than deal with them squarely and correct them
The high Clinton administration official who admitted, "It was very clear to me right away that we were making this up as we went along"
Patterson explains that he wrote Dereliction of Duty not to attack Bill Clinton, but out of his sense of responsibility as a military man to serve the common good. "And I know," explains Patterson, "that the greater good was demonstrably not served by President Clinton and his administration, which put personal wants and needs ahead of the national interest." That makes this book more important than just a record of Clinton's misdeeds: it is essential reading for every patriot who wants to do his part to prevent such a debased character from ever occupying the Oval Office again.
I know...it ain't short...sorry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chancremechanic -
First of all, these are not your words supported by a quote; this is a cut and paste with no comment by you. It's almost as bad as cutting and pasting a website address with no accompanying comments by you.
Now then. I'll take a look at it and analyze it to see if it makes any good points.
This seems to be advertising for the book. It's written as though it were a tabloid which makes it highly suspect. It seems as though the book is catering not to people who want to be informed but who want interesting gossip bashing Clinton.
There are many references to proof and events without describing the proof and events themselves. I imagine this is because the writer wants the reader to buy the book to find out what he's talking about. He's intentionally omitting the actual information that would support all these allegations.
There is a description of how Patterson was chosen to accompany Clinton and carry the "football". Nothing damning Clinton there. This includes some statements that make Patterson appear legit, important, humble and heroic. OK, that's fine.
There's a description of Patterson's judgements of what he sees in the White house. I don't see any descriptions of what he actually saw so that I can judge for myself. Then Patterson blames Clinton for 9-11 without support.
It says Clinton lost his copy of nuclear codes. That's got a little substance. I'd like more details please.
How Slick Willie lost a crucial chance to strike strategic targets in Iraq because he wouldn't let his golf game be interrupted long enough to examine the situation and give the necessary orders
Details please. What day was this? Where do lies come into this?
The day the President neglected to change the country's top secret nuclear codes
Details please. What day was this? Where do lies come into this?
Osama bin Laden: how he came close to being caught on Clinton's watch -- except that the President hesitated too long in deciding to give the order
Details please. Where do lies come into this?
Clinton's dishonesty: how it extended to everything from his golf game to his extramarital affairs and - most ominously of all - to his priorities as president and his concern for our national security
Specifics please. This seems again to make the claim you made, that Clinton was dishonest with respect to military issues.
Military personnel: forbidden to wear their uniforms inside the White House - by order of Hillary Clinton
When did she issue this order? Why is this important? What does this have to do with Clinton lying?
What Clinton finally did to lose virtually all the faith and trust that military men had placed in him
So what did he do? How do lies come into this?
Clinton's cynicism: how he was able to turn on grief when needed to gain political points - and turn it off just as quickly
Where's the support for this claim? How do lies come into this?
The subtle and not-so-subtle racism on display regularly among Clinton staffers
Details? Especially the not-so-subtle ones. How does Clinton lying come into this?
Hillary: "Harsh, difficult, and unpredictable" - and more about why administration officials fled from their desks and scurried into hiding places to avoid having to deal with her
Who said that quote? When? Support the claim that these officials did 'flee' and tell me why they did so. How does Clinton lying come into this?
How the Clintons spent more than $15,000 of the taxpayers' money to airlift Chelsea's forgotten backpack of books to their vacation spot in the Virgin Islands
Details please. How does Clinton lying come into this? How does this relate to the military?
Slick Willie's mood swings: with Hillary around, it was fruit, veggie plates, and ever-so-correct behavior. When she was gone? Booze, babes and barbecue
Support this claim please. How does Clinton lying come into this? What does this have to do with the military?
A Whitewater smoking gun? The mysterious file box that was Hillary's most important - and most closely watched - piece of luggage
Details please. How does Clinton lying come into this? How does this involve the military?
How Clinton revealed his ignorance of and contempt for the military in ways that any military officer would notice
How did he do so? I'd like quotes and actions, not descriptions of his tone or expression which are highly subjective. How does Clinton lying come into this?
The direct correlation between Clinton's political trouble at home and his trips abroad - which cost American taxpayers half a billion dollars
Specifics please. How does Clinton lying come into this? Is there a direct link with military issues other than the fact that they use taxpayer money like all other government functions?
Air Force One: how Slick Willie tried to turn it into a sexual playground (behaving in a manner that would have landed him in the brig if he had been a military man)
How did he do so? How does Clinton lying come into this? What does this have to do with the military?
How the Clinton White House neglected basic understandings of military and defense policy - and compounded this ignorance with arrogance toward the men in uniform
Specifics please. How does Clinton lying come into this?
Why Clinton policy in Somalia was a clear recipe for disaster
Why was it, and where does he lie? How does Clinton lying come into this?
Clinton's response to terrorist attacks throughout his administration: lots of talk and little action
Specifics please. How does Clinton lying come into this?
The appalling details of the day Slick Willie gave the Secret Service the slip and left the man holding the nuclear football to walk back to the White House alone
When was this? Details please, focussing on Clinton lying about the military.
How Hillary revealed her basic ignorance of the nature and parameters of the United Nations mission in Bosnia that she was helping to oversee
How does Clinton lying come into this?
When President Clinton met Lieutenant Colonel Patterson's wife - and eyed her as if he were in a singles bar
How does Clinton lying come into this, and what does this have to do with the military?
The shocking reason why Clinton had to discontinue his jogging regimen
How does Clinton lying come into this, and what does it have to do with the military?
Inside the Clinton White House: why it seemed disorganized and highly undisciplined to military men and career government service officers
How does Clinton lying come into this, and what does it have to do with the military?
The bold-faced and outrageous lie that Clinton repeated over 130 times during his 1996 campaign for reelection
What was the lie, when did he say it, and what does it have to do with the military?
How the Clinton administration time and time again attempted to cover up the shortcomings of its policies, rather than deal with them squarely and correct them
How does Clinton lying about the military come into this?
The high Clinton administration official who admitted, "It was very clear to me right away that we were making this up as we went along"
How does Clinton lying about the military come into this?
At the end Patterson pats himself on the back as an unbiased reporter.
This is garbage my friend. There is nothing of substance here.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungLOL....Ok, you win.....I would provide you the details about each excerpt, but I have to go to California for 3 weeks on Sat.....so, I don't have time to accomodate you...sorry...maybe I can check the book out when I come back and I'll try to answer ...in the meantime, may I suggest that you get the book yourself...if you like to read....it is an unbiased report from a honorable Air Force officer....you don't carry the nuclear football with anything less...and even if you are a Clintonite, you will find the facts presented in the book simply too amazing....peace
Chancremechanic -
First of all, these are not your words supported by a quote; this is a cut and paste with no comment by you. It's almost as bad as cutting and pasting a website address with no accompanying comments by you.
Now then. I'll take a look at it and analyze it to see if it makes any good points.
This seems to be adverti ...[text shortened]... back as an unbiased reporter.
This is garbage my friend. There is nothing of substance here.
Uhm . . . without commenting further on how pathetic it is that your partisanship has warped your view on genocide . . .
Originally posted by slimjim
Thousands were killed in Serbia because as you Liberals like to say "We attacked a country without declaring war" on them.
Thousands of US soldiers were killed? Oh you must mean innocent civilian deaths?
Really slim, I'm suprised no one called you on this earlier. If you are going to compare statistics, use the right ones!
The analogous figure for Iraq would be somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000.
Once again you've got peanuts.