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  1. 23 Jun '09 15:47 / 2 edits
    Here is an interesting article about California

    http://www.american.com/archive/2008/november-december-magazine/sundown-for-california/?searchterm=california

    In the article the author searches for the downfall of the once great state. What donwfall you may ask other than their ballooning deficts? The once upwardly mobile state now ranks as the 15th highest in poverty rates in the nation. Only New York and the District of Columbia fare worst if the cost of living is factored in the mix. So where are they headed? Well if you look at the educational levels of those 65 or older who have an associates degree or higher, California ranks second in the nation, however, with the 25-34 age group, they rank to around 30th. Ouch!!

    So what are we to learn from history if anything at all? The author seems to put the blame on the the decline of the states political culture. Although the society may be evolving spectacularly, the politics are devolving. The fall is fingered on the changing policy from investing in infrastructure, and strong nonpartisan involvment for that cause. It was a mixture of an advocation of civil rights and the promotion of business interests that made the state once shine. However, by the mid 60's, the traditional progressivism was being undermined by rising interest group liberalism as state employees and minorities began demanding more and more from their state government. Then as the state caved to these interest groups, the corporate perception was that the state was becoming ever increasing hostile to their goals and objectives. The real problems began to surface when Jerry Brown became governor as he backed away further from the traditional focus of nonpartisan governance and infrastructure spending in favor of being ever increasingly "environmentally friendly". Then the Democratic party became ever increasingly under the sway of narrow interest activist groups. In short, it seems as though california began to wage war on its own tax heavy economy. As pet social programs, entitlement, and state pensions soared the percent of money the state invested in infrastructure shrank from a once 20% level to only 3%. Of course, the terminator then later entered the picture to save the day once again, however, he ended up ceding the initiative for change to the left-leaning state legislature he once called, "girlie men". In fact, under Arnold the state budget actually grew even faster than his predecessor Gray Davis. So I guess that either makes Arnold, at best, a cross-dresser or, at worst, somene who seems to have had a sex change. LOL.

    So having said that, is the US next?
  2. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    23 Jun '09 16:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    So I guess that either makes Arnold, at best, a cross-dresser or, at worst, somene who seems to have had a sex change. LOL.
    I thought the plot of junior was a dead giveaway!
  3. 23 Jun '09 17:17 / 1 edit
    A major problem is that government deficits and debts aren't taken as seriously as they should. It becomes very easy to enact new spending OR new tax cuts without ever having to worry about where the money will come from. The typical voter says "Increased deficits, you say? Whatever..." So who's going to risk angering a large number of voters by telling them they can't have all the programs and tax cuts that they want? Much easier to cave in and just borrow and borrow and then borrow some more.

    It's important that government programs are carried out as efficiently as possible -- which means finding ways to reduce the number of government workers, to pay them less, or to make them more productive. But the presence of a "never-ending pit" of new money to borrow makes such reforms unlikely.

    I fear that the only way to reverse this would be for a major city or state to actually go bankrupt, and then face some real consequences as a result. Suddenly, all across America, deficits will begin to matter and voters will seriously consider new tax hikes or spending cuts so that the budget stays in balance.
  4. 23 Jun '09 17:20
    http://www.citywatchla.com/content/view/2409/

    California to Feds: Drop Dead
    BlogSoup
    By Joe Mathews (Posted first at NewAmerica.net)

    ...
    Worst of all, President Obama and senior aides have served up a side dish of condescension as they advise California to "make some very difficult choices." When you consider the source -- an administration that, however noble its intentions, has deferred its own very difficult budget choices -- such advice merits immediate induction into the Chutzpah Hall of Fame.
    ...
    California has one-eighth of the country's population and represents one-seventh of the economy. But our debt is less than one-hundredth of the federal debt. And we've been far more responsible in managing our budget. As a columnist for Bloomberg News recently noted, if California had the same deficit relative to its GDP as the federal government, we would have a shortfall of about $230 billion. The state's current (and massive) deficit is $24 billion.

    As an independent country, California's low debt-to-GDP ratio -- about 4 percent -- would make it one of the most fiscally responsible major industrialized countries in the world. It would also put to shame our American neighbors, who have a debt-to-GDP ratio that tops 50 percent. California's credit rating, now inexplicably ranked at the bottom of the 50 states by the same rating agency geniuses who gave investment grades to mortgage-backed securities, would almost certainly be AAA. With those fiscal bona fides, the European Union might recruit us a member. Heck, it might even pony up for our defense.
    ...
  5. 23 Jun '09 17:22
    The main lesson to be learnt from California: referendums are a bad idea!
  6. 23 Jun '09 17:23
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    http://www.citywatchla.com/content/view/2409/

    California to Feds: Drop Dead
    BlogSoup
    By Joe Mathews (Posted first at NewAmerica.net)

    ...
    Worst of all, President Obama and senior aides have served up a side dish of condescension as they advise California to "make some very difficult choices." When you consider the source -- an administratio ...[text shortened]... opean Union might recruit us a member. Heck, it might even pony up for our defense.
    ...
    ...


    Because of our budget stalemate and a deep, unexpected decline in tax revenue from the recession, California doesn't have the cash to pay its bills this summer. In normal times, the state handles cash shortages through short-term borrowing in the credit markets. But the amount of cash needed -- and the weakness of those credit markets -- promises to make it prohibitively expensive, and perhaps impossible, for the state to raise enough.

    The feds could help California with a letter of credit guaranteeing the state's bonds. This would be a good thing -- for California and for the country. At the risk of sounding like a car salesman, such a deal would carry very little risk: California has never defaulted on its bonds because when money runs short, the state constitution makes repayment to bondholders a top priority. And the federal government wouldn't have to put up any cash. In fact, Washington could make money on the deal by charging California a fee for the guarantee. As extra insurance, the feds could attach strings, making the guarantees conditional on California taking steps to balance its budget. Either way, this would be a win-win for U.S. and California taxpayers.

    So stop taking shots at California. And send us a nice letter of credit guaranteeing our short-term loans. You might include a note thanking our state for deigning to remain part of your country.
  7. 23 Jun '09 17:27
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The main lesson to be learnt from California: referendums are a bad idea!
    i pulled la palanca against those budget measures ...
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    23 Jun '09 18:43
    Originally posted by whodey
    Here is an interesting article about California

    http://www.american.com/archive/2008/november-december-magazine/sundown-for-california/?searchterm=california

    In the article the author searches for the downfall of the once great state. What donwfall you may ask other than their ballooning deficts? The once upwardly mobile state now ranks as the 15th hi ...[text shortened]... t, somene who seems to have had a sex change. LOL.

    So having said that, is the US next?
    If we weren't taking care of all your homeless

    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=33535593

    and providing 13% of the nations GDP so the welfare states could get federal money I suspect we might not be in this mess.
  9. 24 Jun '09 13:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    http://www.citywatchla.com/content/view/2409/

    California to Feds: Drop Dead
    BlogSoup
    By Joe Mathews (Posted first at NewAmerica.net)

    ...
    Worst of all, President Obama and senior aides have served up a side dish of condescension as they advise California to "make some very difficult choices." When you consider the source -- an administratio opean Union might recruit us a member. Heck, it might even pony up for our defense.
    ...
    But if California really was an independent country, it would also have to have its own military, and its own version of Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. I suspect that if this was the case, your budget would have a lot more red ink in it.

    Overall - Obama is facing two tigers - on one side is a national economy that is bleeding jobs and foreclosures, while on the other side is a fiscal imbalance that is causing debts to mount, and the relentless rise in healthcare costs that are a major threat to future budgets.

    To tame the first tiger, the government needs to spend like a drunken sailor - to tame the second tiger, the government needs to send those sailors to AA. Obviously, you can't tame both cats at the same time. It's very easy to criticize Obama when you're not the one in the tiger cage. I don't envy his position.
  10. 24 Jun '09 16:49
    Costa Rica doesn't have a military!

    and you would expect that if California's net outflow in raw dollars is positive, the net outflow to Social Security and Medicare is positive as well. or at least is included in the raw numbers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Costa_Rica
  11. Standard member Weadley
    NONE
    24 Jun '09 17:05 / 1 edit
    We closed our California factory and didn't blink and eye.
    We got tired of being screwed in the ass.
    There are plenty of states out there that actually want businesses to settle in them and generate tax revenue.

    EnvironMENTALists, overtaxation (to pay for Pedro's emergency room visit for heartburn), and more taxes (to save the planet) are looming.

    Syanora California.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    24 Jun '09 19:27
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    Costa Rica doesn't have a military!

    and you would expect that if California's net outflow in raw dollars is positive, the net outflow to Social Security and Medicare is positive as well. or at least is included in the raw numbers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Costa_Rica
    Costa Rica had to beg for weapons from the US when they got invaded by Nicaragua. You don't need a military when El Norte got your back.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    24 Jun '09 19:28
    Originally posted by Weadley
    We closed our California factory and didn't blink and eye.
    We got tired of being screwed in the ass.
    There are plenty of states out there that actually want businesses to settle in them and generate tax revenue.

    EnvironMENTALists, overtaxation (to pay for Pedro's emergency room visit for heartburn), and more taxes (to save the planet) are looming.

    Syanora California.
    There goes the Asia market.
  14. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    25 Jun '09 03:03 / 2 edits
    So far, the only explanations for why th world's 8th largest economy is on the verge of bankruptcy are:

    Too many immigrants
    Pedro's emergency bill
    environmentalists


    Do any of you even know what the 3 biggest spending programs in california are?

    I'll give you a hint.....

    Education 40%
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Environnment..............1%
  15. 25 Jun '09 03:16
    Originally posted by uzless
    So far, the only explanations for why th world's 8th largest economy is on the verge of bankruptcy are:

    Too many immigrants
    Pedro's emergency bill
    environmentalists


    Do any of you even know what the 3 biggest spending programs in california are?

    I'll give you a hint.....

    Education 40%
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Environnment..............1%
    How about spending more than you make?