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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 14:26
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/04/can-catalonia-declare-independence-from-spain

    Who here supports the right of the people of Catalonia to declare independence from Spain?
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
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    30 Oct '17 14:31
    Originally posted by @whodey
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/04/can-catalonia-declare-independence-from-spain

    Who here supports the right of the people of Catalonia to declare independence from Spain?
    Problem is, the people of Catalonia don't appear unified in their desire for independence. Indeed, from what I understand, more Catalonians are against independence from Spain than in favour. .
  3. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 14:38
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Problem is, the people of Catalonia don't appear unified in their desire for independence. Indeed, from what I understand, more Catalonians are against independence from Spain than in favour. .
    I'm reminded of the US Revolution. Most did not support the Revolution. The minority fought for their independence.

    Most people would rather have "peace" and "security" than fighting for their own survival.

    Scotland also comes to mind. Think of all those centuries they spilled their blood to be free, only to later vote "No" centuries later.
  4. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 15:13
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I'm reminded of the US Revolution. Most did not support the Revolution. The minority fought for their independence.

    Most people would rather have "peace" and "security" than fighting for their own survival.

    Scotland also comes to mind. Think of all those centuries they spilled their blood to be free, only to later vote "No" centuries later.
    The King of Scotland inherited the throne of England; that's how union initially came about.

    The United Kingdom does not exactly threaten the Scots with genocide!
  5. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 15:21
    Originally posted by @whodey
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/04/can-catalonia-declare-independence-from-spain

    Who here supports the right of the people of Catalonia to declare independence from Spain?
    In my opinion the response by Spain to the referendum is more a case than anything else. I was initially ambivalent but then the Spanish police beat up 900 people, dragging women by their hair and throwing people down stairs. If I was catalan I wouldn't want to be a part of such a country.
  6. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 15:391 edit
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    In my opinion the response by Spain to the referendum is more a case than anything else. I was initially ambivalent but then the Spanish police beat up 900 people, dragging women by their hair and throwing people down stairs. If I was catalan I wouldn't want to be a part of such a country.
    That's nothing. Lincoln sent in the troops with about a million dead when it was all said and done.

    Collectivists demand unity, or else.....................
  7. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 16:12
    Originally posted by @whodey
    That's nothing. Lincoln sent in the troops with about a million dead when it was all said and done.

    Collectivists demand unity, or else.....................
    Whodey, that was 1861. This is 2017. The two aren't comparable. Plus, the southerners were allowing slavery. They kind of deserved it.
  8. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 16:161 edit
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Whodey, that was 1861. This is 2017. The two aren't comparable. Plus, the southerners were allowing slavery. They kind of deserved it.
    Right, now we have cell phones so there is no comparison.

    Speaking of slavery, is that what the people of Catalonia are now?
  9. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 16:17
    Originally posted by @whodey
    That's nothing. Lincoln sent in the troops with about a million dead when it was all said and done.

    Collectivists demand unity, or else.....................
    Just as another example, ~25 million people died in the Taiping rebellion, which took place in 1850's and 60's.
  10. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 16:181 edit
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Just as another example, ~25 million people died in the Taiping rebellion, which took place in 1850's and 60's.
    Lincoln offered to make slavery a Constitutional right so long as the slave states returned to the union, but they rejected it.

    Considering that, was it really over slavery or was it merely raw power over a populace that no longer feels they have a voice?
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    30 Oct '17 18:091 edit
    Does California have the right to secede from the USA? Tibet and Taiwan from China? Chechnya from Russia? Crimea from Ukraine? Texas from Mexico?

    Generally the answer is no. But South Sudan and Crimea got away with it. And Texas.
  12. Joined
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    30 Oct '17 18:19
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Does California have the right to secede from the USA? Tibet and Taiwan from China? Chechnya from Russia? Crimea from Ukraine?

    Generally the answer is no. But South Sudan and Crimea got away with it.
    No.

    Collectivism is like the mob. You can join, but you can NEVER leave.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
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    30 Oct '17 18:38
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/2/russian-interference-seen-catalonia-crisis/

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/kazakhstans-leader-changes-countrys-name-qazaqstan-rebuff-putin-interference-1645168
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    30 Oct '17 19:56
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Scotland also comes to mind. Think of all those centuries they spilled their blood to be free, only to later vote "No" centuries later.
    You are joking?

    Scotland has been free since the late 14th Century. The House of Stuart
    ruled an independent Scotland for hundreds of years and then finally
    ruled England too to form a United Kingdom.

    The Scottish parliament repeatedly asked England for political unity
    until it was finally realised in early 1700s.
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    30 Oct '17 20:17
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Does California have the right to secede from the USA? Tibet and Taiwan from China? Chechnya from Russia? Crimea from Ukraine? Texas from Mexico?

    Generally the answer is no. But South Sudan and Crimea got away with it. And Texas.
    Don't forget Canvey Island!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvey_Island_Independent_Party
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