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30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @whodeyProblem is, the people of Catalonia don't appear unified in their desire for independence. Indeed, from what I understand, more Catalonians are against independence from Spain than in favour. .
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/04/can-catalonia-declare-independence-from-spain
Who here supports the right of the people of Catalonia to declare independence from Spain?
30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeI'm reminded of the US Revolution. Most did not support the Revolution. The minority fought for their independence.
Problem is, the people of Catalonia don't appear unified in their desire for independence. Indeed, from what I understand, more Catalonians are against independence from Spain than in favour. .
Most people would rather have "peace" and "security" than fighting for their own survival.
Scotland also comes to mind. Think of all those centuries they spilled their blood to be free, only to later vote "No" centuries later.
30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @whodeyThe King of Scotland inherited the throne of England; that's how union initially came about.
I'm reminded of the US Revolution. Most did not support the Revolution. The minority fought for their independence.
Most people would rather have "peace" and "security" than fighting for their own survival.
Scotland also comes to mind. Think of all those centuries they spilled their blood to be free, only to later vote "No" centuries later.
The United Kingdom does not exactly threaten the Scots with genocide!
30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @whodeyIn my opinion the response by Spain to the referendum is more a case than anything else. I was initially ambivalent but then the Spanish police beat up 900 people, dragging women by their hair and throwing people down stairs. If I was catalan I wouldn't want to be a part of such a country.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/04/can-catalonia-declare-independence-from-spain
Who here supports the right of the people of Catalonia to declare independence from Spain?
Originally posted by @ashiitakaThat's nothing. Lincoln sent in the troops with about a million dead when it was all said and done.
In my opinion the response by Spain to the referendum is more a case than anything else. I was initially ambivalent but then the Spanish police beat up 900 people, dragging women by their hair and throwing people down stairs. If I was catalan I wouldn't want to be a part of such a country.
Collectivists demand unity, or else.....................
Originally posted by @whodeyWhodey, that was 1861. This is 2017. The two aren't comparable. Plus, the southerners were allowing slavery. They kind of deserved it.
That's nothing. Lincoln sent in the troops with about a million dead when it was all said and done.
Collectivists demand unity, or else.....................
Originally posted by @ashiitakaRight, now we have cell phones so there is no comparison.
Whodey, that was 1861. This is 2017. The two aren't comparable. Plus, the southerners were allowing slavery. They kind of deserved it.
Speaking of slavery, is that what the people of Catalonia are now?
30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @whodeyJust as another example, ~25 million people died in the Taiping rebellion, which took place in 1850's and 60's.
That's nothing. Lincoln sent in the troops with about a million dead when it was all said and done.
Collectivists demand unity, or else.....................
Originally posted by @ashiitakaLincoln offered to make slavery a Constitutional right so long as the slave states returned to the union, but they rejected it.
Just as another example, ~25 million people died in the Taiping rebellion, which took place in 1850's and 60's.
Considering that, was it really over slavery or was it merely raw power over a populace that no longer feels they have a voice?
30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @athousandyoungNo.
Does California have the right to secede from the USA? Tibet and Taiwan from China? Chechnya from Russia? Crimea from Ukraine?
Generally the answer is no. But South Sudan and Crimea got away with it.
Collectivism is like the mob. You can join, but you can NEVER leave.
30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @whodeyYou are joking?
Scotland also comes to mind. Think of all those centuries they spilled their blood to be free, only to later vote "No" centuries later.
Scotland has been free since the late 14th Century. The House of Stuart
ruled an independent Scotland for hundreds of years and then finally
ruled England too to form a United Kingdom.
The Scottish parliament repeatedly asked England for political unity
until it was finally realised in early 1700s.
30 Oct 17
Originally posted by @athousandyoungDon't forget Canvey Island!
Does California have the right to secede from the USA? Tibet and Taiwan from China? Chechnya from Russia? Crimea from Ukraine? Texas from Mexico?
Generally the answer is no. But South Sudan and Crimea got away with it. And Texas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvey_Island_Independent_Party