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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Nov '09 03:03
    Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has defended jailed killer "Carlos the Jackal" and several world leaders he says are wrongly considered "bad guys".

    In a speech to international socialist politicians, Mr Chavez said "Carlos", a Venezuelan, was not a terrorist but a key "revolutionary fighter".

    He is serving a life sentence in France for murders committed in 1975.

    Mr Chavez also hailed Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe, Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and the late Ugandan dictator Idi Amin.

    'Great nationalist'

    Carlos, whose real name is Ilich Ramirez Sanchez, gained international notoriety in the 1970s as a mastermind of deadly bombings, assassinations and hostage-takings.

    He was captured in Sudan in 1994 and handed over to France, where he was jailed for killing two French intelligence officers and an alleged informer in 1975.

    In his speech late on Friday in Caracas, Mr Chavez said: "I defend him. It doesn't matter to me what they say tomorrow in Europe."

    He said he believed Carlos had been unfairly convicted, and called him "one of the great fighters of the Palestine Liberation Organisation".

    The Venezuelan leader has previously called Carlos a friend, and is reported to have exchanged letters with him in the past.

    In his speech, Mr Chavez also described Presidents Mugabe and Ahmadinejad - who like Mr Chavez are strong critics of the US - as brothers.

    About former Ugandan President Idi Amin, Mr Chavez said: "We thought he was a cannibal... I don't know, maybe he was a great nationalist, a patriot."

    Idi Amin seized power in 1971. About 300,000 people were killed during his eight-year rule.


    Goodness gracious!

    Ilich Ramirez Sanchez
    Mugabe
    Ahmadinejad
    Idi Amin

    This is quite a list. As a matter of interest - and in the temporary spirit of undisguised relativism - which of these four people - all bizarrely lauded by Chavez - do posters think is the most egregious offender against human decency and which one is the least egregious offender?
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Nov '09 03:16
    Here is a possible sub-thread.

    How about we chip in with Egregious Leaders and Their Four Egregious Friends.

    I could kick it off.

    Whose list might this have been in, say, the early 80s?

    Mobutu
    Osama Bin Laden
    Soeharto
    Saddam Hussein
  3. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    22 Nov '09 03:33
    Stupid speech. Even for someone who is cautiously optimistic about Chavez, it was just plain stupid.
  4. 22 Nov '09 03:40
    Quite a list he should have added Pol Pot while he was showing the world what an idiot he is.
  5. 22 Nov '09 03:45
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Stupid speech. Even for someone who is cautiously optimistic about Chavez, it was just plain stupid.
    :'(

    THose are tears of joy by the way. I just never thought I would see this day. The left has turned on one of their own.

    Just out of curiosity, where was the line in the sand drawn?
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Nov '09 03:55
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    Quite a list he should have added Pol Pot while he was showing the world what an idiot he is.
    Well, as you know, we could easily put Pol Pot on Reagan's list (but I had to stick to four) and to Thatcher's for that matter.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Nov '09 03:56
    Originally posted by whodey
    I just never thought I would see this day. The left has turned on one of their own.
    Chavez has regularly been the target of scorn by RHP's "left".
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Nov '09 03:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    THose are tears of joy by the way.
    Which of the four people on Chavez's list of "brothers" do you think is the most egregious offender against human decency?
  9. 22 Nov '09 04:08
    Originally posted by FMF
    Which of the four people on Chavez's list of "brothers" do you think is the most egregious offender against human decency?
    That is a tuffy, however, I can tell you who is the least egregious offender against human decency. After watching the Last King of Scotland I can tell you that Idi Amin was simply a misunderstood individual. He appears to have been a torchered sould who was driven by a very bad case of indigestion.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Nov '09 04:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    That is a tuffy, however, I can tell you who is the least egregious offender against human decency.
    What about the Reagan list: Mobutu, Osama Bin Laden, Soeharto, Saddam Hussein. Support or admiration for which of these was the biggest and least affront to decency?

    Your opinion would be interesting because you are nostalgic about Reagan.
  11. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Nov '09 04:23
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has defended jailed killer "Carlos the Jackal" and several world leaders he says are wrongly considered "bad guys".

    [quote]In a speech to international socialist politicians, Mr Chavez said "Carlos", a Venezuelan, was not a terrorist but a key "revolutionary fighter".

    He is serving a life sentence in France for murde ...[text shortened]... against human decency and which one is the least egregious offender?[/b]
    Believe it or not, I'd say Ahmadinejad is the most benign of the 4... so far. I am truly afraid that he's trying to acquire nuclear weapons for the purpose of using them, but for now, his abuses have mostly been limited to repression of domestic freedom and blustery rhetoric.

    As for the worst, I'd have to go with Idi Amin.
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Nov '09 04:24
    Originally posted by FMF
    What about the Reagan list: Mobutu, Osama Bin Laden, Soeharto, Saddam Hussein. Support or admiration for which of these was the biggest and least affront to decency?

    Your opinion would be interesting because you are nostalgic about Reagan.
    I don't think that supporting one person for the narrow goal of helping that person defeat a perceived greater evil is quite the same thing as supporting that person in general or supporting that person's cause.
  13. 22 Nov '09 04:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    As for the worst, I'd have to go with Idi Amin.[/b]
    :'(

    Tough crowd, tough crowd. Sorry Idi, I was pullin for ya. To make it up to me try not to stand anywhere near me on judgement day and we will call it even!!
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Nov '09 04:35
    Originally posted by sh76
    I don't think that supporting one person for the narrow goal of helping that person defeat a perceived greater evil is quite the same thing as supporting that person in general or supporting that person's cause.
    So Chavez's daft rhetoric and support for his Egregious Four is of more concern to you than the U.S. material and diplomatic support for the likes of Mobutu and Soeharto - with ghastly death tolls attached? And U.S. propping up of, say Saddam Hussein, was "supporting one person" and not "supporting that person in general or supporting that person's cause"? When you read your post back to yourself, do you not wince just a little?
  15. 22 Nov '09 04:35
    Originally posted by FMF
    What about the Reagan list: Mobutu, Osama Bin Laden, Soeharto, Saddam Hussein. Support or admiration for which of these was the biggest and least affront to decency?

    Your opinion would be interesting because you are nostalgic about Reagan.
    I thought it common knowledge that Reagan was ordained as a saint by the Catholic church. He then abandoned any notion of foriegn policy and instead chose to seek to elevate individual leaders based soley upon their personal righteopusness or debase those based upon their wickedness.....or is this news to you?