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  1. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    12 Nov '12 22:54
    Researchers found 2 percent to 7 percent of mental disorders were attributable to physical punishment.

    http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
  2. 12 Nov '12 23:40
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Researchers found 2 percent to 7 percent of mental disorders were attributable to physical punishment.

    http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
    Try doing some more research. I think you will find that neglect is by far the worst form of abuse.
  3. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    12 Nov '12 23:40
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Researchers found 2 percent to 7 percent of mental disorders were attributable to physical punishment.

    http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
    Researchers 'found' no such thing. They merely concluded this based on a ridiculously methodologically flawed study. Here are some highlights, published along with the article you cite:

    The article entitled "Physical Punishment and Mental Disorders" by Dr. Tracie Afifi (1) in the July Pediatrics takes a misleading "bait and switch" approach in opposing all use of disciplinary spanking with children. The authors discover an association (not causation) between an adult's retrospective recall of receiving "harsh physical punishment" and the presence of an adult mental disorder. The survey asked whether they were "pushed, grabbed, shoved, slapped, or hit by their parents" during their childhood. Remarkably, the survey neither included the term "spanking" nor limited the survey to the conventional definition of spanking: "striking a child with an open hand on the buttocks or extremities with the intention of modifying behavior without causing physical injury." (2)

    Furthermore, participants in the study were most likely recalling experiences as teens, since retrospective reports correlate highest with events occurring at ages 12 to 14 years, more so than for earlier ages. (3) Adolescence is certainly not a recommended age for the use of spanking, let alone the use of harsh physical punishment.

    Remarkably, the researchers gloss over their finding that "individuals with a family history of dysfunction were more likely to experience harsh physical punishment." That may be a better explanation for the mental illness association than the one they postulate. The use of harsh discipline is often a marker for troubled families and such an unhealthy environment takes its toll on a child. It is also suspicious that they control separately for gender (aOR-1 in their Tables 2 and 3) or this family history (aOR-2), but never together. It is possible that controlling for both reduces the odds ratios for most mental illnesses to a non-significant level.

    After baiting the reader with an extensive and exclusive discussion of the use of "harsh physical punishment," the authors make the switch and conclude that all "physical punishment (i.e., spanking, smacking, slapping) should not be used with children of any age." So, they study the use of inappropriate harsh physical punishment with an inappropriate age group (teenagers) within dysfunctional families and then draw a conclusion that ordinary spanking of a young unruly child should be proscribed. In interviews following the release of this study, the authors failed to make the distinction between the harsh punishment studied and ordinary spanking of children leading the media to announce that "Children who are spanked, hit, or pushed as a means of discipline may be at an increased risk of mental problems in adulthood." (4)

    This study by Dr. Afifi and her colleagues cannot draw any conclusion about whether the most appropriate kind of spanking (e.g., two open-handed swats to the buttocks) should remain an available option for parents when children of an appropriate age (about 2 to 7 years) defiantly refuse to cooperate with milder disciplinary measures, such as time out. That limited use of spanking, when directly compared to alternative disciplinary tactics, has actually been shown to lead to improved compliance and less aggression in children. (5) Sadly, this study says nothing about the effects of appropriate disciplinary spanking, adds to the growing confusion surrounding the topic of child discipline, and furthers an unscientific bias against corrective disciplinary measures employed by parents.

    References:

    1. Physical Punishment and Mental Disorders: Results From a Nationally Representative US Sample. Afifi T.O., Mota N.P., Dasiewicz P., MacMillan H.L., Sareen J. Pediatrics. 2012; 130:1-9.

    2. American Academy of Pediatrics, Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health. Guidance for effective discipline. Pediatrics.1998; 101:723-728.

    3. Stattin, H., Janson, H., Klackenberg-Larsson, I., & Magnusson, D. Corporal punishment in everyday life: An intergenerational perspective. In J. McCord (Ed.). Coercion and punishment in long-term perspectives. 1995; 315-347. Cambridge, England: Cambridge University Press.

    4. USA Today News, July 2, 2012. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-06-28/spanking-mental- problems/55964610/1?csp=34news (accessed July 7, 2012).

    5. Larzelere, R. E., & Kuhn, B. R. Comparing child outcomes of physical punishment and alternative disciplinary tactics: A meta-analysis. Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review. 2005; 8:1-37.

    Den A. Trumbull, MD, FCP Pediatric Healthcare Montgomery, Alabama

    Robert E. Larzelere, PhD, Professor Dept. of Human Development & Family Science Oklahoma State University Stillwater, Oklahoma

    Peter Nieman, MD, FRCP (C), FAAP Clinical Assistant Professor University of Calgary Medical School Calgary, Alberta
  4. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    12 Nov '12 23:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    Try doing some more research. I think you will find that neglect is by far the worst form of abuse.
    Try starting a thread "neglect is by far the worst
    form of abuse" if that is what you wish to discuss.
  5. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    12 Nov '12 23:58
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Researchers 'found' no such thing.
    The quote is a direct cut n paste from the link.
  6. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    12 Nov '12 23:59
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Researchers found 2 percent to 7 percent of mental disorders were attributable to physical punishment.

    http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
    Similar studies found that hormone replacement therapy for women was beneficial. Later, better studies found that HRT was harmful. Many doctors were badly mislead for many years.

    We have no idea what the risks of non-spanking are. There might be even worse side-effects.
  7. 13 Nov '12 00:20
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Try starting a thread "neglect is by far the worst
    form of abuse" if that is what you wish to discuss.
    My only point is that if you wish to impose marshall law on spanking children you need to start with negelctful parents. It really makes sense, when children are physically abused they at least are receiving some stimulation.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    13 Nov '12 03:52 / 1 edit
    The variables are so ridiculously hard to control for in these types of studies that they're probably worthless.

    Does anyone really think researchers can control for every other variable when correlating raising children with mental illness?

    Raising children is seriously complex business. Did the researchers control, for example, for whether the parents smiled at their children or frowned at them at the dinner table every night? My experience tells me that makes more of a difference than whether the kid gets a timeout or a swat on the butt.
  9. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    13 Nov '12 03:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    My only point is that if you wish to impose marshall law on spanking children you need to start with negelctful parents. It really makes sense, when children are physically abused they at least are receiving some stimulation.
    I agree there are many levels of abuse and
    many worse than a spank from a loving
    parent. I just wanted to open a debate on
    spanking specifically.
  10. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    13 Nov '12 04:03
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I agree there are many levels of abuse and
    many worse than a spank from a loving
    parent. I just wanted to open a debate on
    spanking specifically.
    Then maybe you should have picked a study that asked subjects about spanking, or began the discussion without tacitly characterizing spanking as a form of abuse.
  11. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    13 Nov '12 04:05
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Then maybe you should have picked a study that asked subjects about spanking, or began the discussion without tacitly characterizing spanking as a form of abuse.
    Spanking is good!
    http://www.parentdish.com/2010/01/05/researcher-says-a-little-spanking-is-good-for-kids/
  12. 13 Nov '12 21:47
    Originally posted by whodey to wolfgang59
    Try doing some more research. I think you will find that neglect is
    by far the worst form of abuse.
    "I think you will find neglect is by far the worst form of abuse."
    --Whodey

    While neglect might be regarded as the most common 'form of abuse' by a
    parent toward one's child(ren), I suspect that the boys and girls who have been
    sexually abused by a parent (or another adult family member) would have
    preferred simply to have been 'neglected' (ignored) instead.
  13. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    13 Nov '12 21:52
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Researchers found 2 percent to 7 percent of mental disorders were attributable to physical punishment.

    http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
    The seat of the soul is in the seat of the pants?
  14. 13 Nov '12 22:12
    Originally posted by sh76
    The variables are so ridiculously hard to control for in these types of studies that they're probably worthless.

    Does anyone really think researchers can control for every other variable when correlating raising children with mental illness?

    Raising children is seriously complex business. Did the researchers control, for example, for whether the parents s ...[text shortened]... s me that makes more of a difference than whether the kid gets a timeout or a swat on the butt.
    Well, one study wouldn't be able to provide anything conclusive - but it could show a correlation that would justify further study.

    Of course we have to remember that correlation doesn't equal causation and there would have to be a lot of other studies that tried to measure the correlation of various other variables.

    With sufficient data points I think they could basically suggest that in both groups (groups spanked and not spanked) there were different parents who did and didn't smile or frown at them. If they did further studies then that sample would grow and they could make sure this wasn't an anomaly.
  15. 15 Nov '12 01:24
    Ive heard that childhood monkey spanking causes blindness but not psychosis. Guess that is what happened to Kazet. In his case he can't see that he is crazy.