Last night Chris Rock released a special on Netflix where he addresses getting smacked during the Oscars.
Obviously, I don't condone violence. But consider this:
A man is out in public with his wife and some guy insults her and she gets laughed at. If that guy gets punched in the face for insulting the man's wife, I'm sure the average person would agree that guy kinda deserved it. Most people would see this as simply sticking up for his wife.
Now let's say that same guy is on stage with a microphone and says the same insult as before, causing the audience to laugh at the man's wife; why is now an outrage if the man walks up on stage and smacks him?
If most people would be understanding of a man punching the guy out in the street for insulting his wife, why should holding a microphone on stage make a comedian immune from the consequences of insulting audience members?
I expect some people will say that violence over mere words is never okay, regardless of location, and I agree. My issue is if a man can at least get a pass for punching a guy in the street to defend his wife, why is it wrong for doing the same to a comedian?
You could argue that people pay to to see a comedian and be entertained while insults just come with the territory. But people go to be entertained, not disrespected.
@vivify saidThis is an outdated analogy, but if you go to SeaWorld for the orca show and sit in the splash zone, would it be appropriate for you to slap the whale in the face for getting you wet?
Last night Chris Rock released a special on Netflix where he addresses getting smacked during the Oscars.
Obviously, I don't condone violence. But consider this:
A man is out in public with his wife and some guy insults her and she gets laughed at. If that guy gets punched in the face for insulting the man's wife, I'm sure the average person would agree that guy kind ...[text shortened]... tained, so insults just come with the territory. But people go to be entertained, not disrespected.
@wildgrass saidYou're comparing getting water splashed on you during summer weather to being disrespected?
This is an outdated analogy, but if you go to SeaWorld for the orca show and sit in the splash zone, would it be appropriate for you to slap the whale in the face for getting you wet?
Your point is that you should just expect insults thrown at the audience; perhaps that's true. If a comedian like Don Rickles, Dice, etc., is known for insulting audience members as part of their brand, then I agree with you, since that's part of the show.
But is there any limit on how vicious he can get? Can he just say anything that would normally get him punched anywhere else just because everyone else laughed?
@vivify. I would bail on this one Vivify ,,,, the loser Will is in the entertainment business. And hey Vivify, only a sensitive lib would use the word vicious.
I don't think Will was 'offffeennnnnnnnndded' , he is not that kind of liberal. This was all show. Could it be a cultural thing? I don't think Robert Redford would have gone up and punched Paul Newman when awards were handed out for their movie, The Sting. Say, ooooohhhh, I seeee......
07 Mar 23
@vivify saidYeah I think it's pretty well understood that the celebrity audience is part of the show, that they all expect to be roasted. It happens every year.
You're comparing getting water splashed on you during summer weather to being disrespected?
Your point is that you should just expect insults thrown at the audience; perhaps that's true. If a comedian like Don Rickles, Dice, etc., is known for insulting audience members as part of their brand, then I agree with you, since that's part of the show.
But is there any limi ...[text shortened]... t say anything that would normally get him punched anywhere else just because everyone else laughed?
Here was Tina Fey in 2013: "I haven't really been following the controversy over Zero Dark Thirty, but when it comes to torture, I trust the lady who spent three years married to James Cameron."
And her again in 2014: "It's the story of how George Clooney would rather float away into space and die than spend one more minute with a woman his own age."
I don't know where the line is with celebrity roasts but it's pretty far compared to a normal audience. Not all the jokes land, but most are harmless. Including the alopecia joke. The TV audience usually loves it.
07 Mar 23
@vivify saidYou explain the difference between comedy and non-comedy perfectly well. I’m surprised you find it hard to comprehend why the reactions to both are different.
Last night Chris Rock released a special on Netflix where he addresses getting smacked during the Oscars.
Obviously, I don't condone violence. But consider this:
A man is out in public with his wife and some guy insults her and she gets laughed at. If that guy gets punched in the face for insulting the man's wife, I'm sure the average person would agree that guy kind ...[text shortened]... ined while insults just come with the territory. But people go to be entertained, not disrespected.
Frankie Boyle, Jimmy Carr, etc. say much worse things to the audience. It’s part of their routine.
You can’t have them being beat up.
Indeed, I’ll go one step further: it’s the role of the comedian to make fun of authority figures. To say what others cannot say.
What sort of a world would we be living in if everything comedians said couldn’t be hurtful, when said in jest?
07 Mar 23
@vivify saidI think when someone is on stage they are in a special category, if I did what Smith did I would have been charged with assault. Chris Rock was paid to make rich people laugh, if you didn’t want to risk becoming part of his act you should probably stay home.
Last night Chris Rock released a special on Netflix where he addresses getting smacked during the Oscars.
Obviously, I don't condone violence. But consider this:
A man is out in public with his wife and some guy insults her and she gets laughed at. If that guy gets punched in the face for insulting the man's wife, I'm sure the average person would agree that guy kind ...[text shortened]... ined while insults just come with the territory. But people go to be entertained, not disrespected.
07 Mar 23
1 edit
@vivify saidYou’re looking for a comparison to condemn Smith where one doesn’t exist. It’s not a black and white (at ease wokers, that’s not racist) situation. You are also confounding your premise with this ‘male protecting female’ anachronistic jazz hands.
Last night Chris Rock released a special on Netflix where he addresses getting smacked during the Oscars.
Obviously, I don't condone violence. But consider this:
A man is out in public with his wife and some guy insults her and she gets laughed at. If that guy gets punched in the face for insulting the man's wife, I'm sure the average person would agree that guy kind ...[text shortened]... ined while insults just come with the territory. But people go to be entertained, not disrespected.
Imo Rock was out or order calling out a silent person in the audience over their baldness, wether it was stylist or medical. It was a cheap personal attack and I read afterwards it was possibly motivated by a prior disagreement between him and Smith. He was out of order.
Smith was out of order too, and probably on the Charlie. He would have faired better by simply standing up and heckling Rock for an apology there and then… “I’m not letting you go on until you apologise” for example would have been far more effective method and done more damage to Rock short and long term.
07 Mar 23
@divegeester saidNothing wrong with insulting bald people!
You’re looking for a comparison to condemn Smith where one doesn’t exist. It’s not a black and white (at ease wokers, that’s not racist) situation. You are also confounding your premise with this ‘male protecting female’ anachronistic jazz hands.
Imo Rock was out or order calling out a silent person in the audience over their baldness, wether it was stylist or medical. ...[text shortened]... example would have been far more effective method and done more damage to Rock short and long term.
07 Mar 23
@vivify said"A man is out in public with his wife and some guy insults her and she gets laughed at. If that guy gets punched in the face for insulting the man's wife, I'm sure the average person would agree that guy kinda deserved it. Most people would see this as simply sticking up for his wife. "
Last night Chris Rock released a special on Netflix where he addresses getting smacked during the Oscars.
Obviously, I don't condone violence. But consider this:
A man is out in public with his wife and some guy insults her and she gets laughed at. If that guy gets punched in the face for insulting the man's wife, I'm sure the average person would agree that guy kind ...[text shortened]... ined while insults just come with the territory. But people go to be entertained, not disrespected.
Absolutely not. What is this? Want to challenge him to a duel as well? Pistols at dawn?
Words mean nothing. You put yourself between your wife, child, friend and danger but if that "danger" is words, you roll your eyes and you leave.
"Now let's say that same guy is on stage with a microphone and says the same insult as before, causing the audience to laugh at the man's wife; why is now an outrage if the man walks up on stage and smacks him?"
He is a comedian, absolutely everything he says can offend someone at some point, depending on what that someone's inner state is and just how much of a maniac they are. Someone might explode because you looked at them funny. Case in point: the mildest joke, barely funny, "looking like GI Jane" (a badass character), which would have been ignored any other day by 99.9, caused Will Smith to explode. Because of HIM (will smith) and what HE thought Jada wanted of him. Absolutely nothing to do with Chris Rock.
"If most people would be understanding of a man punching the guy out in the street for insulting his wife"
I refuse to believe most people would be understanding of that. If it really is the case, it would be sad. I am definitely not among those people.
"I expect some people will say that violence over mere words is never okay, regardless of location, and I agree. "
This is contradicted by your previous statements.
"My issue is if a man can at least get a pass for punching a guy in the street to defend his wife, why is it wrong for doing the same to a comedian?"
First of all, i disagree with the premise "a man can get a pass for punching a guy to defend his wife [OVER MERE WORDS]" (make sure "defending" in this case doesn't refer to physical harm).
Secondly, comedians get special treatment. It is understood that for comedy to work, there have to be conventions in place. A comedian may say things that a non-comedian, in any other circumstance than a stand-up stage, shouldn't say.
For comedy to exist, the audience must understand that "a rabbi, a priest and a horse" didn't actually walk into a bar, blondes and poles aren't really all stupid, animals can't actually talk and necrophilia isn't recommended.
"But people go to be entertained, not disrespected."
That's subjective on the person. One person may feel disrespected while another might have the greatest laugh of their lives at the same joke. It's your responsibility to not fukin explode like a maniac because someone is doing a character on stage.
The above are my points, in general, on audience-comedian relationship.
Speciffically, Will Smith was on the verge to explode and Chris Rock just happened to be the one in the way. The joke in question would have been taken as a compliment by any other person and forgotten the second after. And if it was a worse, more insulting joke instead it STILL wouldn't have excused Smith.
This was a case of a self absorbed man, dealing with issues in his life, on the verge of exploding, thinking he is owed his notion of respect, lashing out.
07 Mar 23
@divegeester said"Imo Rock was out or order calling out a silent person in the audience over their baldness, wether it was stylist or medical. It was a cheap personal attack and I read afterwards it was possibly motivated by a prior disagreement between him and Smith. He was out of order. "
You’re looking for a comparison to condemn Smith where one doesn’t exist. It’s not a black and white (at ease wokers, that’s not racist) situation. You are also confounding your premise with this ‘male protecting female’ anachronistic jazz hands.
Imo Rock was out or order calling out a silent person in the audience over their baldness, wether it was stylist or medical. ...[text shortened]... example would have been far more effective method and done more damage to Rock short and long term.
Comedian hired to do a job, did his job. Personal attack? Wtf are you talking about? Being likened to GI Jane, one of the first strong female characters in movies?
Ricky Jervais called the audience pedophiles, corrupt, hypocrites, and worse at the several Golden Globes he hosted. Brad Pitt or Tom Hanks didn't walk on stage to slap him. Jimmy Carr made a 9/11 joke about Pete Davidson's dad, to his face. Pete Davidson actually complimented him on a good joke.
This is about Will Smith and Will Smith alone. If you attack a comedian about their joke, it's a statement on YOUR character, not the comedian's.