Originally posted by sasquatch672 Cypriots are having their wealth seized because of the irresponsibility of an elitist government. Quantitative easing is mostly invisible. This is quite visible indeed.
I'm not sure where the "irresponsibility of the elitist government" comes into play. If the banks fail, depositors expect the government to pay them even though they put their money in institutions that were run incompetently. How is that not "socialism"?
Originally posted by no1marauder I'm not sure where the "irresponsibility of the elitist government" comes into play. If the banks fail, depositors expect the government to pay them even though they put their money in institutions that were run incompetently. How is that not "socialism"?
Socialism if run correctly is a top down thing although it has to be supported by an informed and involved public, if it is to work. That is a big "although." The depositors in the Cyprian banking system, as well as the government, were pretending it was capitalism, until it failed. Now they have been informed, and are involved. And they are shifting blame.
Originally posted by rwingett I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but here you can put your money into a local credit union instead of one of the big commercial banks.
I am not aware of credit unions where I live. If they exist, I would trust them less than banks (and quite possibly be wrong to do so).
Back in Zambia, in my early employment, I used to be paid in cash and did not use banks at all. When I got a job with a South African company, they insisted on paying into a bank account. The same applies here in South Africa, although it is entirely possible that they would accept a credit unions bank account, but then it would probably still be in a bank wouldn't it? Do credit unions have ATMs or must you go to a teller to collect your salary?
Originally posted by normbenign Legitimate taxation ought to be proportionate, and at fixed rates, and never retroactive. QE, or intentional inflation is the worst and least transparent of taxes, and often the most discriminatory.
Never retroactive. Proportionate. Sure, But why would that be that assumed as an "is" is. just because we think it is "ought?"? These items should be covered in the contract when a person invests his money. Or they may be in the country's constitution or statutes, that the banks are required to disclose or at least get a "agree" check box to be checked.
National interest always prevails. In simple terms, "Cyprus may at its discretion take some of your money" may be implied by some constitutional or statutory wording or case law, that Cyprus upholds, and billionaires need to shoot their accountants if they didn't know about. How do we know it was not their responsibility to understand this legal possibility?
Originally posted by normbenign Legitimate taxation ought to be proportionate, and at fixed rates, and never retroactive. QE, or intentional inflation is the worst and least transparent of taxes, and often the most discriminatory.
Originally posted by twhitehead I am not aware of credit unions where I live. If they exist, I would trust them less than banks (and quite possibly be wrong to do so).
Back in Zambia, in my early employment, I used to be paid in cash and did not use banks at all. When I got a job with a South African company, they insisted on paying into a bank account. The same applies here in South A ...[text shortened]... bank wouldn't it? Do credit unions have ATMs or must you go to a teller to collect your salary?
Google credit union zambia. But it doesn't look promising. Ask locally. (edit: they seem to be under the name of "Cooperative Societies" in Zambia. http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNACF667.pdf - sorry if that is a dreaded US AID site.)
I've been president of a CU board of directors. Speaking from a US perspective, credit unions do not typically engage in junk bonds like the Cyprus banks but this is entirely up to their membership-elected board. Usually they are conservative, making a little return on investment (above expenses) benefiting the members/depositors, making loans to members for buying cars etc., investing the rest in reasonably safe bonds. Investigate, get their investment policy in writing, get their last annual report (you may have to pay a bit to join to do this.) It all depends on your county's laws, because the exploiters will come in if they can. If your country's CU laws are protective, then the exploiters will go elsewhere.
My dad said. don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Originally posted by JS357 Google credit union zambia.
I currently live in Cape Town, South Africa. But I am sure there would be credit unions here if I looked for them.
Do they do normal banking services, or are they intended for investments?
My dad said. don't put all your eggs in one basket. I wish I had eggs. When I get some, I'll start looking for baskets.
Originally posted by JS357 Yes, and the bankers pay the government folks for that time in bed. What's odd, is that third parties get screvved by both of them.
Originally posted by normbenign Legitimate taxation ought to be proportionate, and at fixed rates, and never retroactive. QE, or intentional inflation is the worst and least transparent of taxes, and often the most discriminatory.
Your positions are again logically incoherent. Above you stated "taxes are theft". Period. Of what possible difference can it make, if that statement is true, if the "theft" is "proportionate" "at fixed rates" "and never retroactive"? If I pull a gun at the mall and force everybody to open their wallet and give me 10% of what's inside has my "theft" become "legitimate" in your mind?
Originally posted by JS357 Socialism if run correctly is a top down thing although it has to be supported by an informed and involved public, if it is to work. That is a big "although." The depositors in the Cyprian banking system, as well as the government, were pretending it was capitalism, until it failed. Now they have been informed, and are involved. And they are shifting blame.
Originally posted by no1marauder Your positions are again logically incoherent. Above you stated "taxes are theft". Period. Of what possible difference can it make, if that statement is true, if the "theft" is "proportionate" "at fixed rates" "and never retroactive"? If I pull a gun at the mall and force everybody to open their wallet and give me 10% of what's inside has my "theft" become "legitimate" in your mind?
Your example is neither proportionate, fixed, but it may be retroactive. When you rob the people in the mall, are you going to take $5 a piece, or 10% of what they have, and refrain from taking their Rolex or diamond jewelry?
If I knew before hand, that on entering the mall, I'd pass through a turnstile and be assessed 10% of my cash to enter, that would be information I would consider as to whether I would go or not. The mall or authority would consider whether the fee was high enough, too high, or not high enough.
20 Mar '13 01:451 edit
Cyprus banks steal deposits from customers
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