Das Kapital for Whodey

@whodey said
Do the Proletariat run things in Europe?

The workers have relatively high influence compared to elsewhere.

@kazetnagorra said
The second-largest group in the EP is socialist, and socialists used to be more influential in the postwar era.

It's true that Keynesian theory has fallen out of favour since Milton Friedman correctly predicted that its focus on full employment would lead to stagflation in the long run. But the Keynesian school admits that it is weak in the long run. 'In the long run, we are all dead'.

Although mainstream economic thought has all but abandoned Marxism (which does not work), the subprime mortgage crisis has caused a revival of Keynes's ideas. On the other side of the spectrum, the heterodox Austrian school has also increased in popularity.

@kazetnagorra said
Either way, Eladar's notion that "everyone is poor" in Norway is obviously false.

I don't endorse that statement. I was only 'talking' to you.

It's important to note that while Norwegians earn well, it's also very expensive to live there.

@ashiitaka said
It's true that Keynesian theory has fallen out of favour since Milton Friedman correctly predicted that its focus on full employment would lead to stagflation in the long run. But the Keynesian school admits that it is weak in the long run. 'In the long run, we are all dead'.

Although mainstream economic thought has all but abandoned Marxism (which does not work), the s ...[text shortened]... . On the other side of the spectrum, the heterodox Austrian school has also increased in popularity.

The pseudo-scientific Austrian school is entirely ignored by serious academics.

@kazetnagorra said
Why don't you read Das Kapital and find out?

That's a pretty tough assignment for anybody; why can't you start him out with The Communist Manifesto? The basics of Marxist thought are there and it's only about 20 pages.

And it's available on the net: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

Skip the Prefaces and stop at "Working Men of All Countries, Unite!" if you want; it's an adequate version of Marx 101.

@kazetnagorra said
The pseudo-scientific Austrian school is entirely ignored by serious academics.

I would say that that is an exaggeration. While it is considered 'heterodox', the financial crisis has pushed people away from neoliberalism - towards both sides of the spectrum.

@ashiitaka said
It's true that Keynesian theory has fallen out of favour since Milton Friedman correctly predicted that its focus on full employment would lead to stagflation in the long run. But the Keynesian school admits that it is weak in the long run. 'In the long run, we are all dead'.

Although mainstream economic thought has all but abandoned Marxism (which does not work), the s ...[text shortened]... . On the other side of the spectrum, the heterodox Austrian school has also increased in popularity.

Keynes "admitted" no such thing:

"The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again."

Keynes wrote this in one of his earlier works, The Tract on Monetary Reform, in 1923. It should be clear that he is not arguing that we should recklessly enjoy the present and let the future go hang. He is exasperated with the view of mainstream economists that the economy is an equilibrium system which will eventually return to a point of balance, so long as the government doesn’t interfere and if we are only willing to wait. He later challenged that view in his most important work The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money (1935). arguing that the economy can slip into a long term underemployment equilibrium from which only government policy can rescue it.

https://www.simontaylorsblog.com/2013/05/05/the-true-meaning-of-in-the-long-run-we-are-all-dead/

@no1marauder said
That's a pretty tough assignment for anybody; why can't you start him out with The Communist Manifesto? The basics of Marxist thought are there and it's only about 20 pages.

And it's available on the net: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

Skip the Prefaces and stop at "Working Men of All Countries, Unite!" if you want; it's an adequate version of Marx 101.

Das Kapital is an extremely dense, plodding work. I couldn't get through it. I agree that the Communist Manifesto is much more manageable.

@ashiitaka said
I would say that that is an exaggeration. While it is considered 'heterodox', the financial crisis has pushed people away from neoliberalism - towards both sides of the spectrum.

Science doesn't have "sides of the spectrum."

@kazetnagorra said
Science doesn't have "sides of the spectrum."

Lol

@no1marauder said
Keynes "admitted" no such thing:

"The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again."

Keynes wrote this in one of his earlier works, The Tract on Monetary Reform, in 1923. [b] ...[text shortened]...

https://www.simontaylorsblog.com/2013/05/05/the-true-meaning-of-in-the-long-run-we-are-all-dead/

You can argue over the semantics of whether he admitted it or not until you turn blue in the face.

It should be clear that he is not arguing that we should recklessly enjoy the present and let the future go hang.

Obviously, that interpretation of his work is extreme. But that's less relevant when you consider that stagflation did occur - it doesn't matter whether or not Keynes admitted to the long run flaws in his theory.

@ashiitaka said
You can argue over the semantics of whether he admitted it or not until you turn blue in the face.

It should be clear that he is not arguing that we should recklessly enjoy the present and let the future go hang.

Obviously, that interpretation of his work is extreme. But that's less relevant when you consider that stagflation did occur - it doesn't matter whether or not Keynes admitted to the long run flaws in his theory.

Keynes never said stagflation couldn't occur but one instance of it in the US over more than the last 100 years hardly proves its inevitability.

@kazetnagorra said
Science doesn't have "sides of the spectrum."

Economics has a spectrum. Keynesian theory is regarded as centre-left. I'd place neoliberalism as slightly right-of-centre.

The Marxist school is considered the most left-wing school, and the Austrian school the most right-wing.

@no1marauder said
Keynes never said stagflation couldn't occur but one instance of it in the US over more than the last 100 years hardly proves its inevitability.

That's an America-centric view of economics. Stagflation occurred in other economies as well, largely due to the wage-price spiral.

@ashiitaka said
That's an America-centric view of economics. Stagflation occurred in other economies as well, largely due to the wage-price spiral.

No, generally due to exogenous shocks (like sudden increases in oil prices) who's effects soon dissipated.