Originally posted by StarValleyWyNo, Blunkett is fully supportive of the war in Iraq. He wouldn't be in the cabinet of he didn't.
Is this the guy (MP) who is pulling for the ists in Iraq? If not who is that? I heard of one guy who "Supports fully the right of an invaded populace (in Iraq) to kill british soldiers".
What a wonderful guy.
Sounds like you mean George Galloway, Member of Parliament for Glasgow Kelvin (just down the road from me), and recently expelled from the labour party over his views on the Iraq war.
I can see how you could get them confused.
Blunket was nothing more than career-man. Like Tony, like Mandelson, like every other twat on the front bench.
They make me sicker than conservaties do. Using the socialist ticket to get into power and then doing exactly everything Thatcher wanted to do.
It's mere proof that voting sucks and that the problem lies within the institution of government rather than who's elected.
1 edit
Originally posted by shavixmirJust because some people have sold out doesn't mean the 'institution of government' is the problem!
Blunket was nothing more than career-man. Like Tony, like Mandelson, like every other ---- on the front bench.
They make me sicker than conservaties do. Using the socialist ticket to get into power and then doing exactly everything Th ...[text shortened]... within the institution of government rather than who's elected.
PS New Labour didn't stand on a manifesto that was even remotely socialist. Sure, lots of them mouthed socialist policies in their early days, but they didn't get elected as socialists.
They make me sick as well, but lets be clear - they stood on a centre-right manifesto, and got elected.
Originally posted by Redmike"Everything...is gonna get better..."
Just because some people have sold out doesn't mean the 'institution of government' is the problem!
PS New Labour didn't stand on a manifesto that was even remotely socialist. Sure, lots of them mouthed socialist policies in their early days, but they didn't get elected as socialists.
They make me sick as well, but lets be clear - they stood on a centre-right manifesto, and got elected.
You are right that they were elected on a central-right manifesto, but they main men climbed their ways up in the labour party using socialist rhetoric. That's what I meant anyways.
If a true socialist government got into power and wanted to raise the minimum wage by 1 pound, the multi-nationals would take their business elsewhere, thus forcing the socialists to choose between good minimum wages...or jobs.
It doesn't matter who's in government(look at the whole of Europe...'left wing' governments everywhere...but what are they achieving besides privatisation and a constant stream of: "Join the market or don't join the EU" bull poop) the same people still hold the power (multi-nationals and land owners).
That's why government as an institution is the problem. You can vote all you want, it's not going to change anything.
Originally posted by shavixmirI disagree.
"Everything...is gonna get better..."
You are right that they were elected on a central-right manifesto, but they main men climbed their ways up in the labour party using socialist rhetoric. That's what I meant anyways.
If a true socialist government got into power and wanted to raise the minimum wage by 1 pound, the multi-nationals would take th ...[text shortened]... s an institution is the problem. You can vote all you want, it's not going to change anything.
I disagree that there are left-wing governments across Europe. By definition, if they're engaged in privitisation etc, they're right-wing....
I agree that just voting isn't the answer. But voting is part of the solution. But the solution also involves getting the working class engaged in politics - not just as voting fodder, but participating, from a local level upwards (& not the reverse). Democracy is more than a trip to the polling booth every few years.
Originally posted by RedmikeI disagree.
I disagree.
I disagree that there are left-wing governments across Europe. By definition, if they're engaged in privitisation etc, they're right-wing....
I agree that just voting isn't the answer. But voting is part of the solution. But the solution also involves getting the working class engaged in politics - not just as voting fodder, but participat ...[text shortened]... ards (& not the reverse). Democracy is more than a trip to the polling booth every few years.
Left wing is just a comparison. And compared to other parties through-out Europe, the current regimes are left wing.
Originally posted by RedmikeYour post sounds like you are saying the working classes (definition of these please?)as a political force, and democracy are the same thing. I am not a socialist, nor do I agre with a lot of socialist values, but I am 100% behind democracy. There are other voters out there too and surely that's what democracy is all about, everyone having the ability to have a say in the run of government, not just the voting-in of a political parties.
I disagree.
I disagree that there are left-wing governments across Europe. By definition, if they're engaged in privitisation etc, they're right-wing....
I agree that just voting isn't the answer. But voting is part of the solution. But the solution also involves getting the working class engaged in politics - not just as voting fodder, but participat ...[text shortened]... ards (& not the reverse). Democracy is more than a trip to the polling booth every few years.
Originally posted by StarrmanThe working class is everybody who's got a boss.
Your post sounds like you are saying the working classes (definition of these please?)as a political force, and democracy are the same thing. I am not a socialist, nor do I agre with a lot of socialist values, but I am 100% behind democracy. There are other voters out there too and surely that's what democracy is all about, everyone having the ability to have a say in the run of government, not just the voting-in of a political parties.
Originally posted by StarrmanNo, but I'm saying that large parts of the working class are disenfranchised by the lack of parties which properly represent their interests. Hence they've no interest in voting.
Your post sounds like you are saying the working classes (definition of these please?)as a political force, and democracy are the same thing. I am not a socialist, nor do I agre with a lot of socialist values, but I am 100% behind democracy. There are other voters out there too and surely that's what democracy is all about, everyone having the ability to have a say in the run of government, not just the voting-in of a political parties.
If you build from the local communities rather than the centre, you've a more representative democracy.
What I'm saying is that if you have a proper democracy, teh working class will be properly represented.
Originally posted by RedmikeWell, take the German government for example. They're more to the left than the opposition. Same in Spain, same in...uh....Denmark.
I don't understand.
Which regimes are left-wing, compared to which others?
So, they're left wing compared to the other parties they're up against.
Originally posted by RedmikePlease define working class and say what views and concerns of theirs are not being represented currently.
No, but I'm saying that large parts of the working class are disenfranchised by the lack of parties which properly represent their interests. Hence they've no interest in voting.
If you build from the local communities rather than the centre, you've a more representative democracy.
What I'm saying is that if you have a proper democracy, teh working class will be properly represented.
As an aside it is highly amusing to me that many members of the Socialit Workers Party that I have spoken to in the street haven't done a days work in their lives!
Originally posted by SbecspeledrXIs a Doctor working class?
Working Class is anyone who works for a wage - as opposed to making their money from the work of others or from ownership of property.
parasite is anyone who lives on "profit"
How about someone working in the city and earning huge bonuses?
Surely your definition is somewhat flawed.