Which concerns of the 'working class' are not being addressed by any of the political parties in this country? The main problem as I see it is that their are vast sections of the community who are politically illiterate. They seem incapable of thinking for themselves and are happy to parrot the views given to them by newspapers or their equally blinkered parents.
The concern which is not being addressed is the need for a fundemental transformation of society from one where things are built for profit to one where they are built for social need.
Why does a man who makes 50 pair of shoes in a shift using £50 worth of leather only get paid £50 for his shift when the value he's added to the shoes he's created is £1,000? We should be paid the value of our labour.
Why do drugs companies spend money advertising rival products instead of spending the marketing budget on research or on lowering drug prices so they come within reach of people in Africa? Why is more money spent on developing headache cures than on Malaria drug development? (clue : beacause rich westerners care more about headaches!)
We are the driving force of society - we are responsible for everything that is good, the ruling class are parasites. It's time we got our due.
Originally posted by SbecspeledrXWho should decide what is to be produced?
The concern which is not being addressed is the need for a fundemental transformation of society from one where things are built for profit to one where they are built for social need.
Why does a man who makes 50 pair of shoes in a shift using £50 worth of leather only get paid £50 for his shift when the value he's added to the shoes he's created ...[text shortened]... nsible for everything that is good, the ruling class are parasites. It's time we got our due.
Should people who set up businesses not benefit from their risk taking and provision of jobs for others?
Originally posted by ianpickeringThis is why democracy is an essential element of socialism and how we can argure that apart fom in the years of revolution in Spain and Russia we have never had a socialist state to compare capitalism with. Predictably the capitalists either invaded or destabalised these regimes allowing counter revolution in the shape of fascism or stalinism to take the place of the popular sopcialist \ communist government.
Who should decide what is to be produced?
Should people who set up businesses not benefit from their risk taking and provision of jobs for others?
Just beacause USA \ UK continued to call it communism means nothing. Stalinism is as far removed from socialism as fascism is.
We would decide what is to be produced. Factories would be controlled by the workers. With an elected and instantly recallable soviet and this would feed into regional and national soviets. (This is why we don't want to be invaded by Imperialists and Capitalists as soon as we set up - we need to spend time on developing and sustaining our democratic structures not on fighting white russians!). We would know if the things we were producing are useless or not.
We need either the market forces or democracy to control production. market forces is a crude and cruel arbiter - it mesures only if something turns sufficient profit for the parasite who owns the means of production. Democracy mesures whether production benefits society or not.
Should people who set up business benefit from squeezing the maximum profit they can out of me before I die? No. Why should they have the means to establish businesses when we do not? The soviets would spend surpluses to invest in industries and services we need for the benefit of society but which we cannot at present provide. There would be democratic control over capital.
Let me say, I've never been out of work in my life and am actually moderatley good at this capitalism lark but it doesn't stop me real;ising that it is obviously a system that stinks.
1 edit
Originally posted by Redmike😵 Redmikey,
No, Blunkett is fully supportive of the war in Iraq. He wouldn't be in the cabinet of he didn't.
Sounds like you mean George Galloway, Member of Parliament for Glasgow Kelvin (just down the road from me), and recently expelled from the l ...[text shortened]... iews on the Iraq war.
I can see how you could get them confused.
You are getting better at the humor/saurcasm thing. Keep it up. That is what all commies have always lacked. You may soon be capable of full out "humor". Watch it! When that happens, you are doomed as a radical.
Just ask Oscar Wilde.
<edit> I have to stop doing my "saurcasm" spelling. People don't realize the humor of it. So "Sarcasm" will have to do. Oh well.
Originally posted by ianpickeringThere are many sections of the working class not represented. Mostly the vast numbers confined to peripheral estates around major cities.
Which concerns of the 'working class' are not being addressed by any of the political parties in this country? The main problem as I see it is that their are vast sections of the community who are politically illiterate. They seem incapable of thinking for themselves and are happy to parrot the views given to them by newspapers or their equally blinkered parents.
In these places in Scotland, even with a party which seeks to represent them, the people are so switched off from politics that we struggle to get a turnout of 10%.
There are also lots of people fed nonsense by the tabloids, but these 2 groups don't necessarily overlap completely
Originally posted by RedmikeStill in denial?
There are many sections of the working class not represented. Mostly the vast numbers confined to peripheral estates around major cities.
In these places in Scotland, even with a party which seeks to represent them, the people are so switched off from politics that we struggle to get a turnout of 10%.
There are also lots of people fed nonsense by the tabloids, but these 2 groups don't necessarily overlap completely
Truth.
Sorry redmikey.
People see slave masters for what they are. The damned Soviets ruined the racket forever. Sorry. Really buddy.
You must get a new racket. Communism will never work again. Ever. Sorry.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyFirstly, we're discussing democracy.
Still in denial?
Truth.
Sorry redmikey.
People see slave masters for what they are. The damned Soviets ruined the racket forever. Sorry. Really buddy.
You must get a new racket. Communism will never work again. Ever. Sorry.
Secondly, just because it didn't work in the USSR, doesn't mean it won't. How many times has capitalism failed?
Sorry, comrade, capitalism has been tried and failed too many times. We're getting a new racket.
Originally posted by RedmikeLet me know the details. If it has no secret police and suppression of religion and suppression of property rights... I might join you.
Firstly, we're discussing democracy.
Secondly, just because it didn't work in the USSR, doesn't mean it won't. How many times has capitalism failed?
Sorry, comrade, capitalism has been tried and failed too many times. We're getting a new racket.
Justice is two words when you think of it. "just" and "us".
All about the person. Me. You. Us. Just Us.
Originally posted by RedmikeWhat do you believe that these people 'need' to make their lives better. I would think that one of the main things was a safe environment for them and their families. Tackling anti-social behaviour would seem to be the main priority. I'm sure a party standing for this would do well and attract votes. Do you not agree?
There are many sections of the working class not represented. Mostly the vast numbers confined to peripheral estates around major cities.
In these places in Scotland, even with a party which seeks to represent them, the people are so switched off from politics that we struggle to get a turnout of 10%.
There are also lots of people fed nonsense by the tabloids, but these 2 groups don't necessarily overlap completely
Originally posted by ianpickeringGood to see you picked up on my advice on "become a radical" the other day.
What do you believe that these people 'need' to make their lives better. I would think that one of the main things was a safe environment for them and their families. Tackling anti-social behaviour would seem to be the main priority. I'm sure a party standing for this would do well and attract votes. Do you not agree?
Good advice then and now.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyThank you! I've always been a radical!! My early days on this site were mainly taken up with what I thought was a little friendly banter. But some people thought I was anti-American, so I've tried to tone it down a bit - although I still don't understand how Bush got re-elected!!
Good to see you picked up on my advice on "become a radical" the other day.
Good advice then and now.
1 edit
Originally posted by ianpickeringI wonder myself.
Thank you! I've always been a radical!! My early days on this site were mainly taken up with what I thought was a little friendly banter. But some people thought I was anti-American, so I've tried to tone it down a bit - although I still don't understand how Bush got re-elected!!
It is a big thing to understand a nation.
I don't. Don't worry about it.
Hell. I can't even understand my own village.
Oh well.
So a radical thinks for him/her self. Self. Self. Self.
Radical? maybe.
The logic is that in serving yourself you serve those who fail to learn or discount the effort.
You inherit their laziness.
So you export power in direct proportion to their indifference.
As per the new manual on chimpness, circa 2004 by SVW. ® SVW
All dependant on getting out of your damned flat and drinking coffee and making yourself a power center in "whatever" you consider to be "doable" as a group.
Originally posted by ianpickeringThat would be one of many issues, though I don't find that many people raising it as a concern in the areas I do political work in. Drugs are a concern (and the anti-social behaviour issue usually surfaces as a consequence of the drug issue), poverty and associated health issues are concerns and lack of resources generally (transport, schools etc) are concerns.
What do you believe that these people 'need' to make their lives better. I would think that one of the main things was a safe environment for them and their families. Tackling anti-social behaviour would seem to be the main priority. I'm sure a party standing for this would do well and attract votes. Do you not agree?
People are generally smart enough to understand that 'anti-social behaviour' is often a symptom of a wider problem.
So, parties offering quick fixes to anti-social behaviour might do ok, but parties offering anti-poverty measures (free school meals, free prescriptions, replacement of the council tax) do well too.