http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/12/120309-daylight-savings-time-2012-what-time-is-it-spring-forward-nation/
I guess this post may belong in debates, but seeing as it is scientifically based I have placed here.
I am not a believer in changing the clocks. I believe Greenwich got it wrong in the first place for the UK, and that the atomic clock is an hour behind by 'wrong' initial choice.
I believe the UK, and maybe even the USA, should have +1 hour all year round, hence the atomic clock being wrong IMHO. I feel that the change of hours in March and October/November, pending location, is a hindrance and causes more loss than gain.
Anybody ever considered this, or have opinion about it?
I'm interested to know how many are for, or against, DST.
-m. 😉
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Originally posted by mikelomEliminate DST. Period.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/12/120309-daylight-savings-time-2012-what-time-is-it-spring-forward-nation/
I guess this post may belong in debates, but seeing as it is scientifically based I have placed here.
I am not a believer in changing the clocks. I believe Greenwich got it wrong in the first place for the UK, and that the atomic clo ...[text shortened]... have opinion about it?
I'm interested to know how many are for, or against, DST.
-m. 😉
But keep current time? Or move everything forward by 1 hour for the whole year ad infinitum? That's my inquisition..... e.g. GMT should be +1 from London all year round, and others adjust accordingly all year round too....... those that want to, of course? I read that DST is not a legal state requirement in USA, and that states such as Kansas and Hawaii never adapt or change the clocks. That being true, would they continue as is, or adopt a plus one hour as STD time? It confuses me... tremendously.
-m.
Edit: I'm looking for consensus for, if the majority do not like DST and the changes every 6 or so months that it brings, would they like to keep the hour as it is, or move it forward an hour permanently? Apologies, I didn't make my quest clear. 😳
Originally posted by mikelomIt really has nothing to do with science except the complications it causes for us programmers.
I guess this post may belong in debates, but seeing as it is scientifically based I have placed here.
I am not a believer in changing the clocks.
It always seemed rather dumb to me too, but then I come from a country with far less seasonal variation in daylight hours and no DST at all.
I believe Greenwich got it wrong in the first place for the UK, and that the atomic clock is an hour behind by 'wrong' initial choice.
Sounds like you have been successfully fooled by the whole idea. Why on earth would you want to move midnight off the true midnight? GMT is the most accurate reflection of the suns movement and DST is just an attempt to fool people into getting up earlier.
I believe the UK, and maybe even the USA, should have +1 hour all year round, hence the atomic clock being wrong IMHO.
Why the +1 hour? What benefits would it have? Do you have some belief that people must start work at 8am? Do you have a favorite number for when you get off work? Why not make it +6 hours just for fun?
Originally posted by twhiteheadNo need to take the pee. 😉
It really has nothing to do with science except the complications it causes for us programmers.
[b]I am not a believer in changing the clocks.
It always seemed rather dumb to me too, but then I come from a country with far less seasonal variation in daylight hours and no DST at all.
I believe Greenwich got it wrong in the first place for t ...[text shortened]... o you have a favorite number for when you get off work? Why not make it +6 hours just for fun?
I often wonder why we work to any hours, apart from those that have to be controlled for financial investment and output, and even those are preconceived ideas!
Why on earth would you want to move midnight off the true midnight? GMT is the most accurate reflection of the suns movement and DST is just an attempt to fool people into getting up earlier.
In who's conjecture is GMT applicable in China or Australia? They could have an equal argument for the suns movement in their time, could they not?
Would this be a debate arising? Is this about what hours we work by the clock, and if any are necessary of not?
Maybe I 'll request a shift to debates for this thread.
-m.
Originally posted by mikelomI just get the feeling you don't know what your talking about.
No need to take the pee. 😉
I often wonder why we work to any hours, apart from those that have to be controlled for financial investment and output, and even those are preconceived ideas!
Its easier in most businesses to coordinate business hours.
I however work from home and have a less strict time table. I may also soon be doing some work for Americans in which case I will have to work to their timetable (5 hours later than us).
In who's conjecture is GMT applicable in China or Australia?
Why Greenwhich of course, and the country around it. China and Australia have their own timezones, as do we here in South Africa. But at midnight in each timezone, the sun it on the opposite side of the earth and at midday it is at its highest. (or at least within an hour or so depending on where you are in the timezone.
You however are proposing that the sun is at its highest at 1pm. Why?
Is this about what hours we work by the clock, and if any are necessary of not?
Many service industry jobs work by a very different schedule from the general business environment. Even within normal businesses there is room for variation. Here in Cape Town many people start an hour early or an hour later to avoid traffic. Capetonians are also famous (in South Africa) for being late starters. Many businesses start at 9:00am whereas most of the country starts at 8:00am.
In Zambia these days many schools have two shifts, a morning one and an afternoon one. This is because of a shortage of school buildings. It makes it possible to educate twice the number of pupils for a given amount of infrastructure. Some businesses could learn from that idea. One could theoretically cut office space costs down by 60% by utilizing buildings 24 hours a day in 3 shifts. Of course many businesses do this already.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI just get the feeling you don't know what your talking about.
I just get the feeling you don't know what your talking about.
[b]I often wonder why we work to any hours, apart from those that have to be controlled for financial investment and output, and even those are preconceived ideas!
Its easier in most businesses to coordinate business hours.
I however work from home and have a less strict time table. I by utilizing buildings 24 hours a day in 3 shifts. Of course many businesses do this already.[/b]
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Well excuse me Sir golden medal.
I worked in China as a program manager with designers in a teams in China, UK, and US. I was working 20 days ago in most weeks.
However, that was not the discussion that was introduced, neither working to hours set.
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The original was nothing to do with the sun being at its highest at whatever time you want to call it, and it isn't necessarily 12.00pm in any country, by far means....... or you are automaticallly calling back to GMT, which I proposed may have been wrong initially for daylight hours, as a count and not by the sun at 12.00pm as it is............ I think you missed something.
Same, why don't you ask youself what is past the end of the universe? Your limited thinking you just wrote in your previous post.
-m.
Sorry, I didn't realise you are a teacher in Zambia.. my mistake in your expertise of time and knowledge of how Greenwich and 'railway time' that you know is par excellence. Take a train on this one.
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Originally posted by mikelomI read that it was all about extending shopping hours.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/12/120309-daylight-savings-time-2012-what-time-is-it-spring-forward-nation/
I guess this post may belong in debates, but seeing as it is scientifically based I have placed here.
I am not a believer in changing the clocks. I believe Greenwich got it wrong in the first place for the UK, and that the atomic clo ...[text shortened]... have opinion about it?
I'm interested to know how many are for, or against, DST.
-m. 😉
I don't really care either way.
Originally posted by KunsooThe rationale they usually give is that it is safer for kids going to school on what would be darker mornings, or that it had something to do with the harvest. It's all very confusing, and spare a thought for nightshift workers when the clocks go back, and likewise day workers when they go forward.
I read that it was all about extending shopping hours.
I don't really care either way.
The modern world needs some absolutely unchanging common time format to function, and since time itself is subjective to all of us that unchanging time format it would seem sensible to designate Universal Time as a starting point. Universal Time was originally taken from Greenwich and nobody has ever come up with a better starting point.
Having said that, individual nations can choose whatever relationship to UT they like for their local administration, and they all do. The question here is whether they should:
a. use the longitude-calculated UT +whatever number all year round
b. alter that number once or twice during each year.
c. use an adjusted one of these but keep it all year round.
It's usually A and B that get discussed, but C is also a viable option, one which is already in use in some places. And then there's the possibility of micro-schedules too.
Time-switching everything twice a year may be great in some locations under some conditions, but it's unnecessary. And, as other posters have already said, each adjustment creates its own problems. Why can't we all use UT and an LT (local time) together, and allow our most complex computers (our human brains) to be aware of their unchanging relationship?
For example, say, my business is open from 8 pm to 7 am UT, and my workers can start work at 5am, 6am or 7am LT all year round, whatever is the appropriate start for my location. More flexible time for workers, indirectly provides more part-time jobs for short periods of the day.
Originally posted by kevcvs57This matters more for the Scots than for the English, though (indeed, whenever proposals to abandon DST, usually in favour of switching to British summer time all year round, are mooted, it's usually the Scots that protest). That disagreement could clearly be solved by changing working hours in the winter north of the border, so that instead of changing the clocks, Scottish schools would simply begin lessons at ten rather than nine in the morning through the winter. That way, both England and Scotland could have what they want.
The rationale they usually give is that it is safer for kids going to school on what would be darker mornings, or that it had something to do with the harvest.
Originally posted by mikelomI fail to see how that is even remotely relevant.
Well excuse me Sir golden medal.
I worked in China as a program manager with designers in a teams in China, UK, and US. I was working 20 days ago in most weeks.
However, that was not the discussion that was introduced, neither working to hours set.
The original was nothing to do with the sun being at its highest at whatever time you want to call it,
Yes it was. Under your sceme of things the terms a.m. and p.m. would cease to be accurate as 12:00pm would no longer be mid day.
and it isn't necessarily 12.00pm in any country, by far means.......
Well our time zones are not one minute wide, as that would cause massive confusion. But its as close as reasonably possible with the idea of trying to keep most countries within one timezone.
or you are automaticallly calling back to GMT, which I proposed may have been wrong initially for daylight hours,
Which makes no sense at all because there is no specific hour that is attached to daylight hours.
Same, why don't you ask youself what is past the end of the universe? Your limited thinking you just wrote in your previous post.
Now your not making any sense at all.
Sorry, I didn't realise you are a teacher in Zambia..
When did I say that? I am a programmer in Cape Town.