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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Feb '10 01:45 / 1 edit
    It is now a virtually a settled fact that California's system of government is dysfunctional. They put so many questions to referendum, including most tax hikes, Prop 8, governor recall, etc., that the whole government seems little more than a Hollywood show. Its property tax system is a complete joke, with grandfathered property owners paying 5% of what similarly situated property owners pay, depending on the date of purchase.

    But, this has got to take the cake.

    http://lakeconews.com/content/view/12361/933/

    In the middle of an economic crisis that no private organization could possibly come out of through anything but bankruptcy and that has them, arguably, in the worst economic position of any state in the Union, NOW is the time to enact a program that would cost $210B/ year. That's $210 BILLION. That would be a big number in the federal budget, let along in the budget of a single state.

    Granted, the Governator will veto it, so it won't be enacted. But, what in the World is the legislature thinking??? Are they really that bored?

    Remember in Superman I when Lex Luther wanted to sink California and make Arizona the west coast?

    Hmmm....




    http://biggovernment.com/2010/01/22/california-democrats-ignore-brown-win-vote-for-bankruptcy/
  2. Standard member expuddlepirate
    Exaulted high possum
    01 Feb '10 01:51
    Originally posted by sh76
    It is now a virtually a settled fact that California's system of government is dysfunctional. They put so many questions to referendum, including most tax hikes, Prop 8, governor recall, etc., that the whole government seems little more than a Hollywood show. Its property tax system is a complete joke, with grandfathered property owners paying 5% of what simila ...[text shortened]... overnment.com/2010/01/22/california-democrats-ignore-brown-win-vote-for-bankruptcy/
    Hmmm....
    In California's defense, most of the state ( less the large mega Metro areas) is conservative but don't have the numbers in the state houses to give enough input.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Feb '10 14:26
    Originally posted by expuddlepirate
    In California's defense, most of the state ( less the large mega Metro areas) is conservative but don't have the numbers in the state houses to give enough input.
    You mean "most" of the state in terms of geography? So what? That's true in every state outside of New England. The cities are more liberal and the rural areas are more conservative. You can only measure by population in this regard.
  4. 01 Feb '10 18:26
    Originally posted by sh76
    It is now a virtually a settled fact that California's system of government is dysfunctional. They put so many questions to referendum, including most tax hikes, Prop 8, governor recall, etc., that the whole government seems little more than a Hollywood show. Its property tax system is a complete joke, with grandfathered property owners paying 5% of what simila ...[text shortened]... ttp://biggovernment.com/2010/01/22/california-democrats-ignore-brown-win-vote-for-bankruptcy/
    Just north of them, Oregon just passed a bill that will kill any chance of attracting new business.
    I just don't get it!!!!!
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Feb '10 18:58
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    Just north of them, Oregon just passed a bill that will kill any chance of attracting new business.
    I just don't get it!!!!!
    Which bill was that?
  6. 01 Feb '10 19:29
    Measure 67, which increased the minimum taxes on corporations.

    The sell was to "get big corporations" that somehow get away with paying taxes. So the minimum yearly tax, on top of other tax increases, goes up from $10/year to $150/year.

    Now I can see taxing based on profits, and the corporations that are doing well can afford a modest increase in taxes; taxes are, after all, a fact of life. It's the very small businesses, the ones struggling in a state with some of the highest unemployment in the nation, that have to shoulder a substantially larger tax burden. It will put businesses that are on the edge in an even more precarious position and will cause some of these very small businesses to fail.

    Since the majority of Americans don't have a small business and don't know how to run a small business, then ignorant legislation like this gets passed. My prices just went up - you want higher taxes, well, it's coming out of your pocket. What did you expect?
  7. 01 Feb '10 19:34
    Originally posted by sh76
    Which bill was that?
    66-67
    raise corporate min tax rates, and taxes on the rich,, over 250,000.00
    In Eugene, we just lost the Korean Semi-Conductor Company Hynix, which resulted in 1400 jobs being lost. There were plans to build 3 wafer FABs here, and one would have been a state of the art 300mm. More chips, same cost.
    Instead, that plant was built in China. You can guess why, but on our end, that facility spent nearly 1 million a month for water and power.
    They say for 1 job lost, 5 more are gone from the economy.
    So, we have lost the Sony plant, HMT, Hynix, and scores of small businesses.
    I am not sure what exactly this new bill is going to do, but my wifes boss has a small flower shop, and it's hurting. Funerals and weddings keep some business going. With valentines day on a Sunday, they will feel that pinch. That's their most important day of the year.
    Just rambling on ain't I??
    sorry
    Lol, I own property here, and in wyo. In oregon I have about a 2200 sq. ft home, built on an 80 ft circle. Property taxes are 4200.00. In wyoming I have 5 acres, I have a foundation hole ready to build on, a shed, and other out buildings. taxes are 268.00 every 2 years. Go figure.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    02 Feb '10 02:20
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    raise corporate min tax rates, and taxes on the rich,, over 250,000.00
    In Eugene, we just lost the Korean Semi-Conductor Company Hynix, which resulted in 1400 jobs being lost. There were plans to build 3 wafer FABs here, and one would have been a state of the art 300mm. More chips, same cost.
    Instead, that plant was built in China. You can guess why...
    Yes. Labour and other costs in China are a fraction of what they are in the States and China is also a gigantic market.
  9. Standard member monster truck
    Walleye Guy
    02 Feb '10 12:52
    Originally posted by Badwater
    Measure 67, which increased the minimum taxes on corporations.

    The sell was to "get big corporations" that somehow get away with paying taxes. So the minimum yearly tax, on top of other tax increases, goes up from $10/year to $150/year.

    Now I can see taxing based on profits, and the corporations that are doing well can afford a modest increase in taxe ...[text shortened]... ent up - you want higher taxes, well, it's coming out of your pocket. What did you expect?
    That's what cracks me up about the 'get big corps' mentality.
    It's all going to be reflected in either increased prices, loss of jobs or reduced bennys.

    There is no money tree.
  10. Standard member monster truck
    Walleye Guy
    02 Feb '10 12:54
    Originally posted by sh76
    It is now a virtually a settled fact that California's system of government is dysfunctional. They put so many questions to referendum, including most tax hikes, Prop 8, governor recall, etc., that the whole government seems little more than a Hollywood show. Its property tax system is a complete joke, with grandfathered property owners paying 5% of what simila ...[text shortened]... ttp://biggovernment.com/2010/01/22/california-democrats-ignore-brown-win-vote-for-bankruptcy/
    California sinking into the Pacific is as inevitable as global warming. It's just a matter of when.

    Any state that produces the likes of Pelosi and Waters is expendable anyway.
  11. 02 Feb '10 13:27
    It's not a bad idea, this Calfornia bill. But of course it should come with a tax increase to pay for it, which is reasonable since people won't be paying for any health insurance anymore under a single payer system.
  12. 02 Feb '10 13:50
    Originally posted by Badwater
    Measure 67, which increased the minimum taxes on corporations.

    The sell was to "get big corporations" that somehow get away with paying taxes. So the minimum yearly tax, on top of other tax increases, goes up from $10/year to $150/year.

    Now I can see taxing based on profits, and the corporations that are doing well can afford a modest increase in taxe ...[text shortened]... ent up - you want higher taxes, well, it's coming out of your pocket. What did you expect?
    so what would be a better way for Oregon to raise these revenues?
  13. Standard member monster truck
    Walleye Guy
    02 Feb '10 14:00
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    so what would be a better way for Oregon to raise these revenues?
    It's always puzzled me that the basic philosophy of many folks is to raise revenue rather than control or cut spending. Perhaps that's an indication that most folks support increased gov programs but are loathe to support them out of their own pocket.
  14. 02 Feb '10 14:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    so what would be a better way for Oregon to raise these revenues?
    A modest tax increase on profits for corporations. That way you're affecting those corporations that are getting by, in a balanced way. The businesses that are doing well are still doing well. The businesses that are not doing well aren't arbitrarily set back.

    You see, the very small businesses are the ones most affected by roller coaster income, and increasing the minimum tax exponentially does not foster very small businesses that are in a survival mode. Whatever recovery the American economy has made is not apparent in Oregon and small businesses need all the help they can get.
  15. 02 Feb '10 14:38
    Originally posted by monster truck
    That's what cracks me up about the 'get big corps' mentality.
    It's all going to be reflected in either increased prices, loss of jobs or reduced bennys.

    There is no money tree.
    Job loss and reduced benefits are already a fact of life.

    As for increased prices, that doesn't hurt in Oregon as much as one might think - we have no sales taxes.