Debates
20 Dec 21
20 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 saidSo you could start by being clear. Not everybody is glued to the US proceedings.
Got so excited, hit wrong button!
A 51/49 vote in the Senate. Some here have worried over our ‘losing democracy”.....well, we have seen democracy work big time. I love this country.
It seems you are excited that Senator Manchin, a Democrat did vota gainst a initititive brought by President Biden, who shares party affiliation.
While the thesis : "Democracy works" since a politicians is voting against party line could be checked, the question remains how you would react if a Republican would do the same.
@ponderable saidYou speak ‘group think’, Ponderosa. A guy like me (I think independently) can hardly converse about your terse comment. Please clarify how you find fault with a man who looks at, studies, and votes his mind, on an issue.
So you could start by being clear. Not everybody is glued to the US proceedings.
It seems you are excited that Senator Manchin, a Democrat did vota gainst a initititive brought by President Biden, who shares party affiliation.
While the thesis : "Democracy works" since a politicians is voting against party line could be checked, the question remains how you would react if a Republican would do the same.
Everyone, the US Senate met to vote on a far-reaching proposal presented by the Democrats. One of the senators, his party affiliation being quite irrelevant, made the vote which stopped it from passing. Ponderable implies that because he is a Democrat, he was obliged to vote along that party line. Ponderosa is a ‘mob’ person.....all of them are, Suzy being the most obvious.
Ponderable says I should have told Global RHP what this is about, but then that means Zahlanzi and Shav would have to explain their body politic on every issue. Whew. This post was for the Americans to savor.
@suzianne saidDon’t you get it, Mrs. Mob? His ‘ party affiliation ‘ is not relevant when he discusses and considers and studies an opinion on a bill which is before the floor.
Manchin needs to change his party affiliation and be done with it.
You guys can see how you like him voting against you.
Seriously, I wish you would tell us what you really think when you think that. Do you truly not believe in independent thought ? I recommend you read up on Ayn Rand .
Note: I wrote that post above, referring to you, prior to your making your mob thought so obvious in this post . I nailed it .
@averagejoe1 saidhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-16/manchin-rakes-in-cash-from-energy-industry-some-gop-donors
His ‘ party affiliation ‘ is not relevant when he discusses and considers and studies an opinion on a bill which is before the floor.
"Senator Joe Manchin raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars from donors in the energy industry in the third quarter, including some from contributors who normally back Republicans".
All that's relevant to Manchin is what his donors want. He gets money from the energy sector, which include oil, gas and coal companies; so Manchin, according the link, opposes environmental provisions. Biden's bill would've included sweeping provisions regarding climate change.
It's not "democracy" if you vote in favor of donors who line your pockets instead of the citizens who elected you.
@averagejoe1 saidhttps://www.npr.org/2021/10/16/1046778414/joe-manchins-objections-to-a-clean-energy-program-threaten-bidens-climate-promis
Please clarify how you find fault with a man who looks at, studies, and votes his mind, on an issue.
Joe Manchin's objections to a clean energy program threaten Biden's climate promises
You need to quit pretending Manchin "votes his mind". Manchin's *donors* are against environmental provisions; so that's how he votes.
20 Dec 21
@vivify saidAre you equally enraged when a Democrat gets the nomination of the a union and then repays his support by using taxpayer money? It feels a lot more like improper bribery when you don't support the cause then when you do support the cause.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-16/manchin-rakes-in-cash-from-energy-industry-some-gop-donors
"Senator Joe Manchin raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars from donors in the energy industry in the third quarter, including some from contributors who normally back Republicans".
All that's relevant to Manchin is what his donors want. He gets money ...[text shortened]... cracy" if you vote in favor of donors who line your pockets instead of the citizens who elected you.
20 Dec 21
@quackquack saidI'm not sure what you're saying here. Please reword.
Are you equally enraged when a Democrat gets the nomination of the a union and then repays his support by using taxpayer money? It feels a lot more like improper bribery when you don't support the cause then when you do support the cause.
20 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 saidSpeaking of group think.......
You speak ‘group think’, Ponderosa. A guy like me (I think independently) can hardly converse about your terse comment. Please clarify how you find fault with a man who looks at, studies, and votes his mind, on an issue.
Everyone, the US Senate met to vote on a far-reaching proposal presented by the Democrats. One of the senators, his party affiliation being quite ir ...[text shortened]... have to explain their body politic on every issue. Whew. This post was for the Americans to savor.
Ever wonder why not a single GOP Senator has ever voted for this bill ?
Or anything else......
Can you name any GOP who looked, studied and voted with his mind on anything lately ?
Or just go with the Trumpism flow ?
Just look at any GOP who voted to impeach Trump.
Political exile soon followed.
Would you support reinstating Liz Cheney ?
@suzianne saidRepresenting one of the most R-leaning states in the country, Manchin was ranked by 538 as the most valuable Democratic seat in the Senate. And that was in 2019.
Manchin needs to change his party affiliation and be done with it.
You guys can see how you like him voting against you.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-every-senator-ranks-according-to-popularity-above-replacement-senator/
At this point, if Manchin switched parties, or even go Independent, the Republicans would control the Senate, with all power that brings for committee assignments and judicial appointments.
You really ought to think more carefully before kicking people out of the tent. It's that kind of thinking that got Mike Castle primaries and lost the Republicans its most valuable Senate seat in Delaware.
Edit: The link is actually PARS, not VARS, but I remember similar analyses for VARS that I can't seem to find right now. Anyway, my point is self-evident.
20 Dec 21
@vivify saidThe citizens who elected Manchin overwhelmingly support the Republican agenda.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-16/manchin-rakes-in-cash-from-energy-industry-some-gop-donors
"Senator Joe Manchin raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars from donors in the energy industry in the third quarter, including some from contributors who normally back Republicans".
All that's relevant to Manchin is what his donors want. He gets money ...[text shortened]... cracy" if you vote in favor of donors who line your pockets instead of the citizens who elected you.
@sh76 saidHis state overwhelmingly supports the Republican agenda; that doesn't mean his voters, who chose a Democrat, also do. That's like saying Raphael Warnock should support Republican agendas because Georgia has reliably been a red state.
The citizens who elected Manchin overwhelmingly support the Republican agenda.
20 Dec 21
@suzianne saidHe’s a DINOsaur he needs to go over to his true friends
Manchin needs to change his party affiliation and be done with it.
You guys can see how you like him voting against you.
Apparently he has a lot invested with fossil fuel companies and it’s the Green part of the deal that he’s trying to block.
The scumbag.
20 Dec 21
@vivify saidEvery politician has groups which support them otherwise the would not be elected. You seem to not support the coal industry (that's fine -- you certain are well with in your right to support or not support any cause you wish). But it does not surprise me that, to you, it seems like a repayment of a bribe when someone who receives money from the coal industry votes in favor or coal's interest. It could of course be that they both the politician and the industry see eye to eye on the issue.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Please reword.
I was just asking if you have the same cynical view on issues you support. For example in New York it is common for the teacher union to support a mayoral candidate and in return the candidate gives them a big raise. One could look at that as an alignment of issues or a legal repayment of a bribe.
Personally both examples seem unfortunate and one solution is a smaller government doing less and picking winners and losers less often. However government seems to want the opposite as the are literally supported by picking winners and losers.