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Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    14 Nov '18 22:06
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46207304

    I thought these days were long gone but apparently in
    Ireland if you wear sexy knickers you are "asking for it".
  2. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
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    15 Nov '18 04:12
    @wolfgang59 said
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46207304

    I thought these days were long gone but apparently in
    Ireland if you wear sexy knickers you are "asking for it".
    My dress code has always been: be glad I’m wearing bloody underpants.
  3. Joined
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    15 Nov '18 04:51
    @shavixmir said
    My dress code has always been: be glad I’m wearing bloody underpants.
    So are we all.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    15 Nov '18 05:55
    @shavixmir said
    My dress code has always been: be glad I’m wearing bloody underpants.
    I am surprised you choose to make light of a woman being raped.
  5. Standard membersh76
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    15 Nov '18 13:22
    @wolfgang59 said
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46207304

    I thought these days were long gone but apparently in
    Ireland if you wear sexy knickers you are "asking for it".
    Blaming a defense attorney for arguing consent when her client was on trial for rape is sick.

    "victim-blaming"??? What's wrong with you people? This is a criminal defendant on trial for his life (well, okay, not literally his life, but a rape conviction can go pretty far towards ruining a person's life).

    Assuming the sexual encounter could be proven, consent is the only legal argument left. Do you want to gag criminal defense attorneys from arguing consent?
  6. Standard membersh76
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    15 Nov '18 13:23
    @wolfgang59 said
    I am surprised you choose to make light of a woman being raped.
    The jury appears to have disagreed.
  7. Joined
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    15 Nov '18 13:49
    @sh76 said
    Blaming a defense attorney for arguing consent when her client was on trial for rape is sick.

    "victim-blaming"??? What's wrong with you people? This is a criminal defendant on trial for his life (well, okay, not literally his life, but a rape conviction can go pretty far towards ruining a person's life).

    Assuming the sexual encounter could be proven, consent is the only legal argument left. Do you want to gag criminal defense attorneys from arguing consent?
    What knickers a person is wearing has nothing to do with consent. Using an outdated offensive stereotype shouldn't be acceptable in a court.
  8. Joined
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    15 Nov '18 14:02
    @stellspalfie said
    What knickers a person is wearing has nothing to do with consent. Using an outdated offensive stereotype shouldn't be acceptable in a court.
    Which attribute rules it out? Outdated? Offensive? Stereotype?
  9. Standard membersh76
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    15 Nov '18 14:12
    @stellspalfie said
    What knickers a person is wearing has nothing to do with consent. Using an outdated offensive stereotype shouldn't be acceptable in a court.
    Let's make an exercise out of this.

    Why?

    Why should offensive arguments not be allowed to defense counsel in court?

    Is it because the right of others to avoid being offended outweighs the due process rights of a criminal defendant facing years in prison and a lifetime of state-sponsored social stigma?
  10. Joined
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    15 Nov '18 14:16
    @js357 said
    Which attribute rules it out? Outdated? Offensive? Stereotype?
    All three?
  11. Standard membersh76
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    15 Nov '18 14:18
    @shallow-blue said
    All three?
    Would you like to try your hand and defining the parameters of what defense counsel should be allowed to argue in defense of her client? How offensive does it have to be and to whom? How outdated? By whose measure?
  12. Joined
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    15 Nov '18 14:57
    @sh76 said
    Let's make an exercise out of this.

    Why?

    Why should offensive arguments not be allowed to defense counsel in court?

    Is it because the right of others to avoid being offended outweighs the due process rights of a criminal defendant facing years in prison and a lifetime of state-sponsored social stigma?
    Stereotype was the key word, specifically outdated offensive stereotypes. Meaning generalisations of people that have been proven to be factually incorrect and are used to perpetuate offensive myths.
    For example in the UK there is an outdated offensive stereotype that all Irish people are stupid. I'm sure you would agree that it would be inappropriate in a court to raise somebodies lack of intellect based on their country of birth.
  13. Zugzwang
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    15 Nov '18 19:171 edit
    @sh76 said
    The jury appears to have disagreed.
    (Sh76 replied to Wolfgang59.)

    That explains why, in an adversarial justice system, lawyers love to select the most biased jurors.
    In a rape trial, the defense lawyer wants jurors sexist enough to believe that wearing
    a short skirt (or other 'too revealing' attire) is implicit consent for sexual intercourse.

    If I recall correctly, Sh76 denounced the (mostly non-white) jury in O.J. Simpson's
    criminal trial rather than congratulating it for honestly delivering a just verdict.
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    15 Nov '18 19:33
    @sh76 said

    Assuming the sexual encounter could be proven, consent is the only legal argument left. Do you want to gag criminal defense attorneys from arguing consent?
    No.

    But when the clothing one wears is considered evidence of consent ....

    That is surely wrong
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
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    15 Nov '18 19:35
    @sh76 said
    Would you like to try your hand and defining the parameters of what defense counsel should be allowed to argue in defense of her client? How offensive does it have to be and to whom? How outdated? By whose measure?
    The defence should be allowed to try anything.
    But surely the judge can decide on irrelevancies"?
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