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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    11 Apr '10 22:05 / 1 edit
    Look at the poor people in Chiapas, In Haiti before the Jean-Bertrand Aristide first election, look at the people movement that arose in Argentina during its crisis, etc, etc, etc...

    They showed that they could take care of themselves during very hard times that came due to rich people very poor and reckless behavior. during this times of a capitalist/consumerist way of life I don't know of a single market crisis that wasn't brought by rich people reckless behavior. They really need to be educated not to play with other people's lives and not to think on a short term basis.

    So what can the world do to educate the rich?
    Put them to work in sweat shops for a few days? Put them to work with no rights whatsoever and beat the crap out of them if they even dream about organizing and fighting for their rights? Put them to live in zones of environment disasters that were caused by pure greed? Make them live abroad and work for a crappy pay in lousy conditions?

    Or make them realize that should start acting like humans and see everybody else like humans. Making them realize that the Earth resources aren't infinite? Or make them realize that their lives are finite and none of their money will be any good to them after they die?

    How do you think this can be done?
  2. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    11 Apr '10 22:11
    Please don't bring the "education" claptrap to this thread, cause that's just a vacuous and irrelevant word!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDuL4jTkz0
    http://fora.tv/2009/01/29/Sir_Ken_Robinson_A_New_View_of_Human_Capacity
    http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

    When education starts being about cherishing creativity and heterogeneity it will become an answer. Until then education is the cancer.
  3. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    11 Apr '10 22:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    ....Or make them realize that should start acting like humans and see everybody else like humans. Making them realize that the Earth resources aren't infinite? Or make them realize that their lives are finite and none of their money will be any good to them after they die?.....How do you think this can be done?
    I think re-education by expecting anyone who effectively lives off the interest of their money or investments, to be made to spend time in community service. I know some might argue that some of the very rich already front some of the largest charities and foundations, but you would have to argue that organizing a gala event attended by the gliteratti that make up your rich friend's list, is a far cry from actually helping out at a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter. To make it fair, the amount of hours you are rostered on a week could be a simple function of your discretionary wealth. This levels the playing field a bit as everyone's essential costs are different.

    So lets say for every million bucks of discretionary wealth a person has to spend per year, they have to return 1 hr per week for the good of society for every hr that they do not put into running their enterprise( compared to the hrs worked on average by those who hold that level of wealth), which will hopefully exert a mutual and positive benefit to both ends of society.

    The effect of this societal expectation would be to engage the idle rich in society as those thus exposed to the underbelly of their wealthy lifestyle may learn to appreciate their position all the more and will hopefully thus focus their energies to help foster a more equitable society. The figures are arbitrary and can be adjusted if some super rich due to keeping their money at arm's length manage to 'escape' attention.

    One particular unintended consequence may be that if the super rich idle person were not willing to spend that much time among the poor, they could donate a portion of their wealth to these areas of social blight, that would reduce their obligation of time spent among the poor. But I am confident that once people are exposed to the needs of others, they would receive enough reward in seeing how their direct involvement changes lives, to if anything then start to volunteer more of their time than what society requires of them.

    You know it makes sense!
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 22:39
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Please don't bring the "education" claptrap to this thread, cause that's just a vacuous and irrelevant word!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDuL4jTkz0
    http://fora.tv/2009/01/29/Sir_Ken_Robinson_A_New_View_of_Human_Capacity
    http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

    When education starts being about cherishing creativity and heterogeneity it will become an answer. Until then education is the cancer.
    Education does value those things. However they're not quantifiable so you cannot apply mathematical and scientific analysis to them.
  5. 11 Apr '10 22:46
    Originally posted by kmax87
    I think re-education by expecting anyone who effectively lives off the interest of their money or investments, to be made to spend time in community service. I know some might argue that some of the very rich already front some of the largest charities and foundations, but you would have to argue that organizing a gala event attended by the gliteratti that ma ...[text shortened]... olunteer more of their time than what society requires of them.

    You know it makes sense!
    Sounds good, what do you do to help others?

    Play chess and screw around posting here?
  6. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    11 Apr '10 22:52
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Education does value those things. However they're not quantifiable so you cannot apply mathematical and scientific analysis to them.
    Education doesn't value those things. Education is built around the concept that people should cram as much as possible and in little time as possible. It is designed to stifle creativity, curiosity and a truly inquisitive spirit.
    The child that asks "too many questions" in the classroom knows that very well.
    The children that wants to do things in the not standard way knows that very well.
    The teacher that has to finish the ridiculously long program in a ridiculously short amount of time knows that very well.

    Up until grad school education is all about memorizing and regurgating and after it it allows you a very minimum of creativity.

    This education crap it's all built around the stupid notion that all people should be university professors or have jobs that are a product of the industrial revolution.

    Now about what's quantifiable. That pervasiveness of mathematics on all levels of human life is just depraved when it is bad used. So what if that's not quantifiable? It is useful and should be cherished. There are a lot of things that aren't quantifiable and still we know that are good and necessary. Holding up on what's quantifiable is just being very short-sighted when the issue is dealing with children.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 22:59 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Education doesn't value those things. Education is built around the concept that people should cram as much as possible and in little time as possible. It is designed to stifle creativity, curiosity and a truly inquisitive spirit.
    The child that asks "too many questions" in the classroom knows that very well.
    The children that wants to do things in th s quantifiable is just being very short-sighted when the issue is dealing with children.
    Look who's the expert now!

    I AM an expert on education. Are you?

    You're talking about a crappy education program. Good education programs involve students interacting with one another, building things, experiencing unfamiliar sights and sounds, exploration of the students' background to find ways to tie experience to new knowledge, having students describe images they imagine in order to tie the images to new knowledge, trying to tie new ideas to powerful emotional responses and funny stories the kids make up, etc.

    A child that asks too many questions disrupts the classroom's group time in order to get personal attention. It's inappropriate. Each child needs to have the chance - and encouragement - to participate and there IS a lesson to be presented and limited time! Asking too many questions is equivalent to throwing papers too often. It forces the teacher to stop and focus on an individual at the class's expense.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 23:04
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Education doesn't value those things. Education is built around the concept that people should cram as much as possible and in little time as possible. It is designed to stifle creativity, curiosity and a truly inquisitive spirit.
    The child that asks "too many questions" in the classroom knows that very well.
    The children that wants to do things in th ...[text shortened]... s quantifiable is just being very short-sighted when the issue is dealing with children.
    By your reasoning, teachers should never be evaluated by any kind of objective means because education can not be evaluated objectively.
  9. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    11 Apr '10 23:05
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Look at the poor people in Chiapas, In Haiti before the Jean-Bertrand Aristide first election, look at the people movement that arose in Argentina during its crisis, etc, etc, etc...

    They showed that they could take care of themselves during very hard times that came due to rich people very poor and reckless behavior. during this times of a capitali ...[text shortened]... f their money will be any good to them after they die?

    How do you think this can be done?
    No, it can't be done. The rich need to be exterminated, not educated.
  10. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    11 Apr '10 23:06
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    Sounds good, what do you do to help others?

    Play chess and screw around posting here?
    I didn't know you were that rich Sam! Sorry!

    Hey I do my bit, spreading the good news of wealth distro (its the new linux)wherever I go!
  11. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    11 Apr '10 23:07
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Look who's the expert now!

    I AM an expert on education. Are you?

    You're talking about a crappy education program. Good education programs involve students interacting with one another, building things, experiencing unfamiliar sights and sounds, exploration of the students' background to find ways to tie experience to new knowledge, having stud ...[text shortened]... and encouragement - to participate and there IS a lesson to be presented and limited time!
    I don't want to become involved in dick measuring contests, but I've been tutoring people in Physics and Mathematics for some seven, eight years by now, and last year and this year I gave actual classes.
    I don't think that makes me an expert on education but I'd love to know what makes you an expert in education. And once again please don't bring your measuring tape into this because that's not what this thread is about.

    Yes I know those are crappy education programs, but they are also the most prevalent education programs. And they have been so for a long time.

    A child that asks too many questions disrupts the classroom's group time in order to get personal attention.

    Has it ever crossed your mind that some children are sincerely interested and just want to ask questions on an issue that really interests them? If not, you're just proving my point.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 23:08
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    I don't want to become involved in dick measuring contests, but I've been tutoring people in Physics and Mathematics for some seven, eight years by now, and last year and this year I gave actual classes.
    I don't think that makes me an expert on education but I'd love to know what makes you an expert in education. And once again please don't bring your ...[text shortened]... questions on an issue that really interests them? If not, you're just proving my point.
    M.A. Secondary Education by 2011.
  13. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    11 Apr '10 23:08
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    By your reasoning, teachers should never be evaluated by any kind of objective means because education can not be evaluated objectively.
    I already know your "logic" and "formal logic". No need to show it anymore.
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 23:09
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Has it ever crossed your mind that some children are sincerely interested and just want to ask questions on an issue that really interests them? If not, you're just proving my point.
    Yes. Has it ever crossed your mind that a classroom is not a one on one tutoring session and that time is limited?
  15. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    11 Apr '10 23:09
    I taught part time for five semesters at a community college. That's all the expertise I need to know that the rich should be exterminated.