Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    14 Feb '18 07:47
    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43046142

    A new check is proposed for Year 4 pupils (8/9 year-olds) on
    their ability to recall multiplication facts up to 12x12.

    Proposed by politicians and denounced by educators.

    What value are times tables these days?

    Why up to 12? (that was useful when there were 12 pennies in a shilling)

    Rote learning cements concrete minds and disencourages fluidity
    of thought which will be far more useful in the future.

    Shame on you Britain!

    Why cannot government leave things to the experts? 😞
  2. Seongnam, S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    19426
    14 Feb '18 08:04
    I was an educator for a while and I have to say that very close relationships with numbers and the times table is good, and, moreover, a lot of schoolwork isn't actually about the fruit of the work; the studied material being committed to heart...

    But it is about the process.

    Do you know what I mean?
  3. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56339
    14 Feb '18 09:17
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Rote learning cements concrete minds and disencourages fluidity
    of thought which will be far more useful in the future.

    We were told that rote-learning formed the basis for the future of your maths education. That children who didn't know the times tables had problems counting at a later age (especially when it gets more difficult).

    What do you mean it cements minds and disencourages fluidity of thought?
  4. Subscriberjoe shmo
    Strange Egg
    podunk, PA
    Joined
    10 Dec '06
    Moves
    7733
    14 Feb '18 15:211 edit
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43046142

    A new check is proposed for Year 4 pupils (8/9 year-olds) on
    their ability to recall multiplication facts up to 12x12.

    Proposed by politicians and denounced by educators.

    What value are times tables these days?

    Why up to 12? (that was useful when there were 12 pennies in a shilling)

    Rote learnin ...[text shortened]... in the future.

    Shame on you Britain!

    Why cannot government leave things to the experts? 😞
    What do you mean? You don't believe in an all knowing and all powerful central government? Kindly report yourself to your local socialist authorities immediately to be drawn and quartered...you treasonous fascist.
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
    tinyurl.com/y43jqfyd
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    14 Feb '18 17:01
    I hated times tables. I learned multiplication by playing AD&D. What’s the max damage for 11d12? What’s the average for the same? That’s how I learned multiplication.
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    14 Feb '18 18:11
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    I was an educator for a while and I have to say that very close relationships with numbers and the times table is good, and, moreover, a lot of schoolwork isn't actually about the fruit of the work; the studied material being committed to heart...

    But it is about the process.

    Do you know what I mean?
    As a teacher and a Maths graduate the process of teaching and learning maths
    has been a pet subject for me for some time. Learning tables by rote does nothing
    to promote mathematical thinking and while it had some value in pre-calculator
    days it is now worthless.

    Far, far better to teach how to quickly calculate all multiplications up to 20x20.
    (The loss of 2 seconds is insignificant compared to the real knowledge gained)
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    14 Feb '18 18:12
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    I hated times tables. I learned multiplication by playing AD&D. What’s the max damage for 11d12? What’s the average for the same? That’s how I learned multiplication.
    Do you actually remember 11x12 or do you mentally (and quickly) do 120 + 12 ???
    (Or some other tactic)
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    14 Feb '18 18:15
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    We were told that rote-learning formed the basis for the future of your maths education. That children who didn't know the times tables had problems counting at a later age (especially when it gets more difficult).

    What do you mean it cements minds and disencourages fluidity of thought?
    Being told 56 = 7x8 and that the "way to remember it is 5,5,7,8"
    does nothing to help with any part of maths (except 7x8)

    Much better to spend a lesson looking at what 7x8 means.
    Different ways of representing it.
    Tactics to calculating it.
    That is mathematics.
  9. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    14 Feb '18 18:16
    Originally posted by @joe-shmo
    What do you mean? You don't believe in an all knowing and all powerful central government? Kindly report yourself to your local socialist authorities immediately to be drawn and quartered...you treasonous fascist.
    A central government should make policy based on the opinions of experts for the benefit of society.
  10. Subscriberjoe shmo
    Strange Egg
    podunk, PA
    Joined
    10 Dec '06
    Moves
    7733
    14 Feb '18 18:40
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    A central government should make policy based on the opinions of experts for the benefit of society.
    Well, I guess this one just slipped through the cracks...
  11. Joined
    20 Oct '16
    Moves
    8806
    14 Feb '18 18:41
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43046142

    A new check is proposed for Year 4 pupils (8/9 year-olds) on
    their ability to recall multiplication facts up to 12x12.

    Proposed by politicians and denounced by educators.

    What value are times tables these days?

    Why up to 12? (that was useful when there were 12 pennies in a shilling)

    Rote learnin ...[text shortened]... in the future.

    Shame on you Britain!

    Why cannot government leave things to the experts? 😞
    What a load of nonsense. If you can't do your simple times tables by grade 4, you can't hope to continue with mathematics.
  12. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    14 Feb '18 18:44
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43046142

    A new check is proposed for Year 4 pupils (8/9 year-olds) on
    their ability to recall multiplication facts up to 12x12.

    Proposed by politicians and denounced by educators.

    What value are times tables these days?

    Why up to 12? (that was useful when there were 12 pennies in a shilling)

    Rote learnin ...[text shortened]... in the future.

    Shame on you Britain!

    Why cannot government leave things to the experts? 😞
    Nonsense. Our elected officials were voted into office and they alone have the wisdom to oversee our affairs. Simpletons, who are average citizens, have no such insight.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    iEn guardia, Ingles!
    tinyurl.com/y43jqfyd
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    14 Feb '18 18:47
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Do you actually remember 11x12 or do you mentally (and quickly) do 120 + 12 ???
    (Or some other tactic)
    No I do 12x10+12
  14. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    14 Feb '18 18:51
    In the States, if kids can read and write before they graduate high school, that is considered a success.
  15. Joined
    20 Oct '16
    Moves
    8806
    14 Feb '18 18:52
    While I was at school, a teacher of mine always said "Maths is like a house. In order to build the higher layers, you need to start with a solid foundation and work your way up. If you build the first layer poorly, your future layers will come crumbling down."

    I have a cousin (who is not stupid) who went to a Waldorf (alternative, very leftist) school for 2 years in 3rd and 4th grade where the children were free to be in class as they pleased. He simply never went and never learnt the times tables. I spent many an hour trying to help him catch up in his later years. He never passed maths and in grade 9 was forced to drop it and take maths literacy (where you learn to add your taxes 😛). He subsequently dropped out of school in grade 11 and never got over his poor maths performance. It's haunted him for years and made him insecure.

    Save the children years of painful suffering in maths class in their later years and just teach them the basics thoroughly. Times tables really aren't that hard to rote learn, and they're just so essential. Sometimes as a teacher you need to give some tough love.
Back to Top