1. Standard memberno1marauder
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    14 Oct '20 22:12
    @averagejoe1 said
    So? Handy would tell you to get on your sail boat and float awhile. Not the issue, Marauder
    Actually it is the issue. The US, along with other countries and international organizations, insisted that the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office be "reformed" i.e. by removing Shokin. The Senators who wrote that letter, one of whom is embarrassingly now carrying water for this absurd conspiracy theory, agreed with that at the time.

    So there was nothing improper about the Vice President of the United States relaying to the President of the Ukraine US foreign policy regarding that nation. And nothing you have shown says anything differently regardless of what Hunter Biden did in his personal capacity.
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    14 Oct '20 23:23
    @no1marauder said
    Actually it is the issue. The US, along with other countries and international organizations, insisted that the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office be "reformed" i.e. by removing Shokin. The Senators who wrote that letter, one of whom is embarrassingly now carrying water for this absurd conspiracy theory, agreed with that at the time.

    So there was nothing improper abou ...[text shortened]... u have shown says anything differently regardless of what Hunter Biden did in his personal capacity.
    joe biden is listed as a criminal in Ukraine...
    "The infamous story of Joe Biden’s effort to force the firing of Ukraine’s chief prosecutor in 2016 has taken a new legal twist in Kiev, just as the former vice president is sewing up the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination in America.

    In Kiev late last month, District Court Judge S. V. Vovk ordered the country’s law enforcement services to formally list the fired prosecutor, Victor Shokin, as the victim of an alleged crime by the former U.S. vice president, according to an official English translation of the ruling obtained by Just the News.

    The court had previously ordered the Prosecutor General’s Office and the State Bureau of Investigations in February to investigate Shokin’s claim that he was fired in spring 2016 under pressure from Biden because he was investigating Burisma Holdings, the natural gas company where Biden’s son Hunter worked."




    https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/ukraine-judge-orders-joe-biden-be-listed-alleged
  3. Standard memberno1marauder
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    14 Oct '20 23:312 edits
    @mott-the-hoople said
    joe biden is listed as a criminal in Ukraine...
    "The infamous story of Joe Biden’s effort to force the firing of Ukraine’s chief prosecutor in 2016 has taken a new legal twist in Kiev, just as the former vice president is sewing up the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination in America.

    In Kiev late last month, District Court Judge S. V. Vovk ordered the country’s ...[text shortened]... news.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/ukraine-judge-orders-joe-biden-be-listed-alleged
    Was that after the Donald finally released the military aid?

    HMMMMMMMMMM

    EDIT: This judge?

    "Even by the standards of Ukraine’s notoriously corrupt justice system, the allegations stemming from intercepted phone calls released by Ukraine’s anti-corruption bureau, known as NABU, are extraordinary. The recordings were made during an investigation into Judge Pavlo Vovk, the head of the administrative court in the Ukrainian capital.

    NABU alleges that Mr Vovk, whose name means wolf, conspired with several fellow judges to gain influence over other courts and government bodies by issuing rulings for purposes of blackmail, as political favours or for kickbacks. The allegedly corrupt judges have been dubbed “the wolves” by local media."

    https://www.ft.com/content/6ae2cc18-3509-4b87-a850-663e4dd702cb
  4. SubscriberAverageJoe1
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    14 Oct '20 23:44
    @no1marauder said
    Actually it is the issue. The US, along with other countries and international organizations, insisted that the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office be "reformed" i.e. by removing Shokin. The Senators who wrote that letter, one of whom is embarrassingly now carrying water for this absurd conspiracy theory, agreed with that at the time.

    So there was nothing improper abou ...[text shortened]... u have shown says anything differently regardless of what Hunter Biden did in his personal capacity.
    You are the issue-evader extraordinaire on the Forum. Everyone, take note. Be wary of his posts..
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    14 Oct '20 23:46
    @no1marauder said
    Was that after the Donald finally released the military aid?

    HMMMMMMMMMM

    EDIT: This judge?

    "Even by the standards of Ukraine’s notoriously corrupt justice system, the allegations stemming from intercepted phone calls released by Ukraine’s anti-corruption bureau, known as NABU, are extraordinary. The recordings were made during an investigation into Judge Pavlo V ...[text shortened]... bed “the wolves” by local media."

    https://www.ft.com/content/6ae2cc18-3509-4b87-a850-663e4dd702cb
    Judges are ELECTED in Ukraine and this judge was recently re-elected. seems the people think a lot of him.
  6. Standard memberlemon lime
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    15 Oct '20 00:33
    @no1marauder said
    No, he wasn't.

    What "corruption"? Insisting a do nothing prosecutor be removed consistent with what other countries and international organizations were demanding?
    What are you talking about? If he was "a do nothing prosecutor" Biden would have had no reason to insist on his removal.
    His son worked for an energy company being investigated for corruption. Joe bragging about how he stopped that amounts to a confession of interfering in another country's criminal investigation.

    Or was Joe just trying to impress his buddies with a made up BS story, where he was the big bad alpha dog. He was the hero of his own made up BS story, is that what it was?
  7. Standard memberno1marauder
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    15 Oct '20 00:39
    @lemon-lime said
    What are you talking about? If he was "a do nothing prosecutor" Biden would have had no reason to insist on his removal.
    His son worked for an energy company being investigated for corruption. Joe bragging about how he stopped that amounts to a confession of interfering in another country's criminal investigation.

    Or was Joe just trying to impress his buddies with a ma ...[text shortened]... here he was the big bad alpha dog. He was the hero of his own made up BS story, is that what it was?
    I've been over this a dozen times at least in this Forum, including in this thread.

    There was no investigation of Burisma at the time and the prosecutor was corrupt and his removal sought by numerous countries, international agencies and the US government, including a bipartisan group of Senators.
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    15 Oct '20 00:54
    @no1marauder said
    I've been over this a dozen times at least in this Forum, including in this thread.

    There was no investigation of Burisma at the time and the prosecutor was corrupt and his removal sought by numerous countries, international agencies and the US government, including a bipartisan group of Senators.
    the prosecutor was near opening an investigation into burisma. all you prove with the others were wanting him fired is just more hands in the till.

    You say the prosecutor was corrupt but never mention how.
  9. SubscriberAverageJoe1
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    15 Oct '20 01:08
    @mott-the-hoople said
    the prosecutor was near opening an investigation into burisma. all you prove with the others were wanting him fired is just more hands in the till.

    You say the prosecutor was corrupt but never mention how.
    Like I said...let wariness be the rule with No1'links'Marauder".
  10. Standard memberlemon lime
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    15 Oct '20 02:12
    @no1marauder said
    I've been over this a dozen times at least in this Forum, including in this thread.

    There was no investigation of Burisma at the time and the prosecutor was corrupt and his removal sought by numerous countries, international agencies and the US government, including a bipartisan group of Senators.
    More likely the prosecutor was not a team player, and naively assumed his job was to investigate and prosecute crimes.

    I know how that works. Years ago I was fired from a small company for doing my job. A few years later the company was investigated and fined, and then mysteriously caught on fire. The insurance people refused to pay out for them burning their own place to the ground...
    Ha! Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Anywho, based on what I've read it appears the Ukrainian prosecutor was replaced by a "team player".
  11. Standard memberno1marauder
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    15 Oct '20 02:59
    @mott-the-hoople said
    the prosecutor was near opening an investigation into burisma. all you prove with the others were wanting him fired is just more hands in the till.

    You say the prosecutor was corrupt but never mention how.
    Here's part of a speech by the US Ambassador to the Ukraine,
    Geoffrey Pyatt, made more than four months before Biden's ultimatum regarding Shokin:

    "However, there is one glaring problem that threatens all of the good work that regional leaders here in Odesa, in Kharkiv, in Lviv, and elsewhere are doing to improve the business climate and build a new model of government that serves the people.

    That problem threatens everything that the Rada, the Cabinet, the National Reform Council, and others are doing to push political and economic reforms forward and make life better for Ukrainians, and it flies in the face of what the Revolution of Dignity is trying to achieve.

    That obstacle is the failure of the institution of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine to successfully fight internal corruption. Rather than supporting Ukraine’s reforms and working to root out corruption, corrupt actors within the Prosecutor General’s office are making things worse by openly and aggressively undermining reform.

    In defiance of Ukraine’s leaders, these bad actors regularly hinder efforts to investigate and prosecute corrupt officials within the prosecutor general’s office. They intimidate and obstruct the efforts of those working honestly on reform initiatives within that same office.

    The United States stands behind those who challenge these bad actors.

    We applaud the work of the newly-established Inspector General’s office in the PGO led by David Sakvarelidze and Vitaliy Kasko.[both eventually fired by Shokin-no1] Their investigations into corruption within the PGO, have delivered important arrests and have sent the signal that those who abuse their official positions as prosecutors will be investigated and prosecuted.

    I encourage all of you to speak up in support of these brave investigators and prosecutors. Give them the resources and support to successfully prosecute these and future cases.

    We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.

    For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

    Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

    The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.

    Even as we support the work of the new Anti-Corruption Commission, and the recruitment of new prosecutors, we have urged Prosecutor General Shokin to empower Deputy Prosecutors Sakvarelidze and Kasko to implement reforms and bring to justice those who have violated the law, regardless of rank or status. We are prepared to partner with reformers within the PGO in the fight for anticorruption."

    https://voxukraine.org/en/remarks-by-us-ambassador-geoffrey-pyatt-at-the-odesa-financial-forum/

    There was also the "diamond prosecutors":

    "avid Sakvarelidze was five months into a new job as Ukraine’s reformist deputy chief prosecutor when a witness came forward with intelligence that would change the course of everything.

    The witness, a sand producer in the Kiev region, complained of men extorting hundreds of thousands of dollars. It took a while to persuade the man to give evidence. But when he did, and the investigation began, the trail led to two of the country’s highest-placed prosecutors.

    A search of the men’s apartments revealed a scene that looked like a comic heist: bags full of cash, diamonds and other precious stones. But that was not the only incriminating evidence. Documents seized at the time indicated the men appeared to have a connection to the top prosecutor in the land, Viktor Shokin.

    Police found copies of Shokin’s passports, property registration certificates and even his licence to carry firearms. One of the two men, it transpired, was Shokin’s former driver who had subsequently climbed the ranks behind his boss.



    For Sakvarelidze, there were clear suspicions the two men may have been carrying out the business of the chief. But his attempts to investigate were frustrated. Soon, he faced a corruption investigation himself. At loggerheads with Shokin, he was pushed out of his job within the year."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/viktor-shokin-ukraine-prosecutor-trump-biden-hunter-joe-investigation-impeachment-a9147001.html

    Anything else you'd like to know?
  12. Standard memberno1marauder
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    15 Oct '20 03:01
    @lemon-lime said
    More likely the prosecutor was not a team player, and naively assumed his job was to investigate and prosecute crimes.

    I know how that works. Years ago I was fired from a small company for doing my job. A few years later the company was investigated and fined, and then mysteriously caught on fire. The insurance people refused to pay out for them burning their own place ...[text shortened]... Anywho, based on what I've read it appears the Ukrainian prosecutor was replaced by a "team player".
    See what happens when you are gullible enough to believe right wing propaganda rather than check on the facts yourself?
  13. Standard memberlemon lime
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    15 Oct '20 03:43
    @no1marauder said
    See what happens when you are gullible enough to believe right wing propaganda rather than check on the facts yourself?
    Again, what are you talking about?
    You wrote in detail about the problem Ukraine has in rooting out corruption, but seem oblivious to the deeply entrenched corruption in our own government which, by the way, your left wing propaganda machine is happy to lie about, misrepresent and provide cover for.
    In spite of efforts to control the narrative, left wing misdeeds are on full display every single day. And at some point even the slowest and dullest spoon fed left winger is bound to catch a whiff of his own BS.
    The left failed the smell test in 2016. So I guess their plan was to double down for 4 years and stink even worse for 2020...

    good plan
  14. Subscribershavixmir
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    15 Oct '20 03:54
    @mott-the-hoople said
    and hunters porn film on the same computer, computer belonging to “beau biden foundation” boy thats a great memorial isnt it?
    Have you seen the film?
    Have you seen the emails?

    Mhmmmm
  15. SubscriberEarl of Trumps
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    15 Oct '20 03:57
    @mott-the-hoople said
    joe biden is listed as a criminal in Ukraine...
    "The infamous story of Joe Biden’s effort to force the firing of Ukraine’s chief prosecutor in 2016 has taken a new legal twist in Kiev, just as the former vice president is sewing up the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination in America.

    In Kiev late last month, District Court Judge S. V. Vovk ordered the country’s ...[text shortened]... news.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/ukraine-judge-orders-joe-biden-be-listed-alleged
    Excellent. I wonder if the Ukraine can extradite Joe? <smile>
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