Erdogan jailed a team of international election observers

@metal-brain said
Fine, Hungary too. What about Poland?
You have nothing to say about Poland?

https://www.cfr.org/report/democracy-and-nato-alliance-upholding-our-shared-democratic-values

If NATO was on Facebook it would use the word ‘complicated’ an awful lot 😂

@kevcvs57 said
Don’t be so freakin naive the USA was in Vietnam in order to establish / maintain its dominance in the region in regard to China.
The US mission of post WWII was to replace the old European colonial powers not prop them up.
They made a pretty good job of it too.

It was another proxy war that involved the USSR and China helping the other side.

https://www.history.com/news/vietnam-war-combatants

That required helping France (a European colonial power) to maintain it's dominance over Vietnam, it's colony France was losing control of. Here is an excerpt from the link below:

"President Franklin D. Roosevelt had signalled during the war that the era of colonialism was over, and, as the Burns-Novick series shows, Ho and his band of rebels had enthusiastically helped America's wartime secret service, the OSS, fight the Japanese. But with Roosevelt dead at war's end, his successor Harry Truman let the French back in, and the revolution was on, in earnest. The French colonial army fought on—financed largely by the U.S.—for nine bloody years. But in 1954, after a disastrous defeat to Ho's Soviet- and Chinese-backed guerrillas at a place called Dien Bien Phu in northern Vietnam, the French surrendered.

The Viet Minh might well have swept to victory throughout the country, but at a 1954 peace conference in Geneva, it accepted the "temporary" partition of Vietnam into a communist-led North and U.S.-backed South, pending elections in 1956. Two years later, the dictatorial regime installed by Washington in Saigon, honeycombed with French-trained bureaucrats and landowners, cancelled the elections knowing that Ho Chi Minh would win. And now the American war was on."

https://www.newsweek.com/vietnam-ken-burns-vietnam-war-doc-documentary-pbs-666582

So the USA was fighting democracy in Vietnam.
In the PBS documentary (Ken Burns) on the Vietnam War, Charles de Gaulle threatened to go over to the Soviet Union if the US refused to let them keep Vietnam. I did not make that up.

@metal-brain said
It was another proxy war that involved the USSR and China helping the other side.

https://www.history.com/news/vietnam-war-combatants

That required helping France (a European colonial power) to maintain it's dominance over Vietnam, it's colony France was losing control of. Here is an excerpt from the link below:

"President Franklin D. Roosevelt had signalled duri ...[text shortened]... d to go over to the Soviet Union if the US refused to let them keep Vietnam. I did not make that up.

Idiot the French were well gone long before the end of the war.
If the insurgency was headed by a capital friendly nationalist the US would not have lifted a finger, they love them guys, look at South and Central America.
The US stepped in because the French were getting ousted by a pro China communist insurgency just like Korea.
There were no democratic options in Vietnam it was either a communist nationalist authoritarian or a capitalist nationalist authoritarian regime and the US naturally favoured the latter.

@kevcvs57 said
Idiot the French were well gone long before the end of the war.
If the insurgency was headed by a capital friendly nationalist the US would not have lifted a finger, they love them guys, look at South and Central America.
The US stepped in because the French were getting ousted by a pro China communist insurgency just like Korea.
There were no democratic options in Vietn ...[text shortened]... oritarian or a capitalist nationalist authoritarian regime and the US naturally favoured the latter.

I never said the French stayed for a prolonged ass kicking. You are the idiot.

"There were no democratic options in Vietnam it was either a communist nationalist authoritarian or a capitalist nationalist authoritarian regime and the US naturally favoured the latter."

You idiot! Ho Chi Minh would have been democratically elected. Here is the excerpt again:

"Two years later, the dictatorial regime installed by Washington in Saigon, honeycombed with French-trained bureaucrats and landowners, cancelled the elections knowing that Ho Chi Minh would win. And now the American war was on."

https://www.newsweek.com/vietnam-ken-burns-vietnam-war-doc-documentary-pbs-666582

The choice was between a democratically elected Marxist and a capitalist authoritarian regime and the US government chose a dictatorship over democracy because the democracy would be Marxist.

@metal-brain said
I never said the French stayed for a prolonged ass kicking. You are the idiot.

"There were no democratic options in Vietnam it was either a communist nationalist authoritarian or a capitalist nationalist authoritarian regime and the US naturally favoured the latter."

You idiot! Ho Chi Minh would have been democratically elected. Here is the excerpt again:

"Two y ...[text shortened]... me and the US government chose a dictatorship over democracy because the democracy would be Marxist.

Ha yeah that’s right the Vietminh / cong were democrats.
Liar you clearly claimed that the US were saving Vietnam fir the French to stop them from allying with Moscow. You squirm more than a squirmy thing on a pitchfork.

@kevcvs57 said
Ha yeah that’s right the Vietminh / cong were democrats.
Liar you clearly claimed that the US were saving Vietnam fir the French to stop them from allying with Moscow. You squirm more than a squirmy thing on a pitchfork.

DeGaulle said so. I am telling you the truth.
Care to make a bet on it?

@metal-brain said
DeGaulle said so. I am telling you the truth.
Care to make a bet on it?

DeGaulle can say what he likes and he was obviously lying because guess what the French lost Vietnam and they did not ally with Moscow. But only an idiot would claim that the US were fighting to preserve French imperial interests.
They were fighting to prevent what they saw as a hostile regime taking over some strategically important real estate and they elbowed an exhausted France out of the way to do it

@kevcvs57 said
DeGaulle can say what he likes and he was obviously lying because guess what the French lost Vietnam and they did not ally with Moscow. But only an idiot would claim that the US were fighting to preserve French imperial interests.
They were fighting to prevent what they saw as a hostile regime taking over some strategically important real estate and they elbowed an exhausted France out of the way to do it

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2363051-Did-de-Gaulle-threaten-to-join-the-USSR-if-the-US-didn-t-help-with-France-s-colonies

https://www.pbs.org/show/vietnam-war/

@metal-brain said
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2363051-Did-de-Gaulle-threaten-to-join-the-USSR-if-the-US-didn-t-help-with-France-s-colonies

https://www.pbs.org/show/vietnam-war/

But you’re leaping from there to the USA spilling a shed load of blood and treasure because of the obviously empty threat made by the blowhard French Chauvinist DeGaulle.

@kevcvs57 said
But you’re leaping from there to the USA spilling a shed load of blood and treasure because of the obviously empty threat made by the blowhard French Chauvinist DeGaulle.

Take it up with Ken Burns.