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  1. 09 Mar '10 03:06 / 5 edits
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7005887/Haiti-response-shows-the-difference-between-the-EU-and-a-superpower.html

    Haiti response shows the difference between the EU and a superpower

    The earthquake in Haiti provoked prompt and effective action from the US, and waffle from the EU, says Christopher Booker

    By Christopher Booker
    Published: 6:49PM GMT 16 Jan 2010

    Compare and contrast the initial responses of two "major world powers" to the Haitian earthquake disaster. Within hours of Port-au-Prince crumbling into ruins, the US had sent in an aircraft carrier with 19 helicopters, hospital and assault ships, the 82nd Airborne Division with 3,500 troops and hundreds of medical personnel. They put the country's small airport back on an operational footing, and President Obama pledged an initial $100 million dollars in emergency aid.

    Meanwhile, across the Atlantic, the European Union geared itself up with a Brussels press conference led by Commission Vice-President Baroness Ashton, now the EU's High Representative – our new foreign minister. A scattering of bored-looking journalists in the Commission's lavishly appointed press room heard the former head of Hertfordshire Health Authority stumbling through a prepared statement, in which she said that she had conveyed her "condolences" to the UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-Moon, and pledged three million euros in aid.

    A gaggle of other Commision spokesmen followed, to report offers of help from individual member states, such as a few search and rescue teams, tents and water purification units. We were also told that an official EU representative would be trying to reach Haiti from the Dominican Republic, to stay for a few hours before returning to report what he had found.

    Memories might have gone back to December 2004, which saw similarly contrasting responses to the Indian Ocean tsunami catastrophe which cost nearly 300,000 lives. Again, within hours the US took the lead in forming an alliance with Australia, India and Japan, and had sent in two battle groups fully equipped to deal with such an emergency, including 20 ships led by two carriers with 90 helicopters. President Bush immediately pledged $35 million, later rising to $350 million. Because they were self-sufficient, the US forces pulled off a stupendously successful life-saving operation, almost entirely ignored by the British media, notably the BBC (whose journalists on the spot were nevertheless quite happy to hitch lifts from US helicopters).

    The EU, by contrast, pledged three million euros for the tsunami victims, called for a three-minute silence (three times longer than is customary to remember the millions who died in two world wars) and proposed a "donors' conference" in Jakarta nearly two weeks later to discuss what might be done.

    ...
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Mar '10 03:18
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    EU a superpower?
    Economically, yes. Militarily, no, not really.
  3. 09 Mar '10 03:26
    Originally posted by FMF
    Economically, yes. Militarily, no, not really.
    Brilliant answer.....but that's the kind of response I anticipated from you....
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Mar '10 03:29
    Originally posted by peanutpicker61
    Brilliant answer.....but that's the kind of response I anticipated from you...
    I don't know about 'brilliant' but it had the virtue of being a succinct answer to the question "EU a superpower?" The fact that I now know you "anticipated" a brilliant answer from me has boosted my self-esteem no end.
  5. 09 Mar '10 04:03
    Originally posted by FMF
    I don't know about 'brilliant' but it had the virtue of being a succinct answer to the question "EU a superpower?" The fact that I now know you "anticipated" a brilliant answer from me has boosted my self-esteem no end.
    It must have been a major "launch" to boost your self esteem...
  6. 09 Mar '10 04:31
    Originally posted by zeeblebot

    The EU, by contrast, pledged three million euros for the tsunami victims,

    a list of the e.u member states - http://europa.eu/abc/european_countries/index_en.htm


    here you can see the real totals given by e.u member states for the tsunami

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_tsu_fun_ple-disasters-tsunami-funds-pledged

    and here you and look into it in greater detail

    http://ec.europa.eu/world/tsunami/reaction_member_states.htm#Germany



    3 million euros they say?
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Mar '10 04:36
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    Memories might have gone back to December 2004, which saw similarly contrasting responses to the Indian Ocean tsunami catastrophe [...] President Bush immediately pledged $35 million, later rising to $350 million. [...]
    The EU, by contrast, pledged three million euros for the tsunami victims...
    I'm not sure how worthwhile cut and pastes from Daily Telegraph columnists are, zeeblebot - although I am pretty sure you choose your cut and pastes from there deliberately.

    The E.U. sent U.S.$615 million in aid to the countries affected by the tsunami, not Euro 3 million as stated in the OP. This was collected from its member states, who in turn also sent aid individually. A few examples:

    Austria, on its own bat sent $65 million, Denmark $74 million, France $302 million, Germany $653 million, Netherlands $300 million, the U.K. $145 million. There are 20 or so other E.U. countries.

    The U.S. sent $950 million.

    Seems to me that Christopher Booker is on a mission to deceive. And zeeblebot is on a mission to spread the deception to this forum.
  8. 09 Mar '10 04:41
    Originally posted by FMF
    I'm not sure how worthwhile cut and pastes from Daily Telegraph columnists are, zeeblebot - although I am pretty sure you choose your cut and pastes from there deliberately.

    The E.U. sent [b]U.S.$615 million
    in aid to the countries affected by the tsunami, not Euro 3 million as stated in the OP. This was collected from its member states, who in turn also ...[text shortened]... s on a mission to deceive. And zeeblebot is on a mission to spread the deception to this forum.[/b]
    Those figures have set my mind in another direction,, tks.
  9. 09 Mar '10 04:54
    Originally posted by FMF
    I'm not sure how worthwhile cut and pastes from Daily Telegraph columnists are, zeeblebot - although I am pretty sure you choose your cut and pastes from there deliberately.

    The E.U. sent [b]U.S.$615 million
    in aid to the countries affected by the tsunami, not Euro 3 million as stated in the OP. This was collected from its member states, who in turn also ...[text shortened]... s on a mission to deceive. And zeeblebot is on a mission to spread the deception to this forum.[/b]
    That doesn't take into account private donations from private individuals, does it?
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    09 Mar '10 05:16
    Originally posted by peanutpicker61
    That doesn't take into account private donations from private individuals, does it?
    No. The figures including private/NGO-sourced aid, for the countries mentioned in my previous post were:

    Austria, on its own bat sent $91 million, Denmark $110 million, France $302 million [no figures available for private donations], Germany $1,300 million, Netherlands $509 million, the U.K. $2,058 million. (There are 20 or so other E.U. countries.) The U.S. sent $2,825 million.

    I don't think there's any 'angle' on this that is going to excuse zeeblebot for quoting such an abyssmal hack & bash piece by the Daily Telegraph.
  11. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    09 Mar '10 06:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7005887/Haiti-response-shows-the-difference-between-the-EU-and-a-superpower.html

    Haiti response shows the difference between the EU and a superpower.
    Before you get too comfortable in your contempt check out the link and compare US giving with the rest of the world as a proportion of GDP for the 2004 Tsunami
  12. 09 Mar '10 07:17
    So whether or not something is a "superpower" is determined by how much aid they send abroad?

    Well, in that case, the EU is a superpower. And the US is not.

    But I'm inclined to follow FMF's definition, by which the EU is a superpower economically, but not militarily, and the US is both.
  13. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    09 Mar '10 07:42
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Oh well, oh well, oh well... Hi chancre!

    How's Jim, btw? Tell my compadre that I miss him around here and
    that I hope that the young fella is doing better with his therapy.

    Take care & keep caressing that pistol, my friend. It certainly saves
    on shrink bills!

    xxx ooo
  14. 09 Mar '10 08:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Oh well, oh well, oh well... Hi chancre!

    How's Jim, btw? Tell my compadre that I miss him around here and
    that I hope that the young fella is doing better with his therapy.

    Take care & keep caressing that pistol, my friend. It certainly saves
    on shrink bills!

    xxx ooo
    ????? Yo, amigo, you best quit sluping the mescal....what are you jabbering about?
  15. 09 Mar '10 09:32
    Has EU the aspiration to be a superpower? I don't think so.