Originally posted by JS357 The GOP became a destination for those who only wanted to unite to say no to Obama. Trump climbed on board. Now they have to govern in unity, but what (or who) united them is gone. So their differences are now front and center.
Yes this is what I did not understand being exposed to the constant polarization between Republicans and Democrats that within these parties there is a spectrum. There are moderate Republicans and whacked out ones and also right-wing Democrats and leftie Democrats. From what I understand Pelosi was able to unite the Dems in 2008 and to get Obamacare through, Ryan was unable to do the same with the Republicans. Probably many of the Republicans are thinking of their constituents and saying to themselves I am not touching that piece of legislation and having learned from what happened to the Dems when they got Obamacre through, decided against it. Clearly Trump has not mastered the art of the deal, buying a hotel in Atlanta is not the same as negotiating legislation. 😵
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Yes this is what I did not understand being exposed to the constant polarization between Republicans and Democrats that within these parties there is a spectrum. There are moderate Republicans and whacked out ones and also right-wing Democrats and leftie Democrats. From what I understand Pelosi was able to unite the Dems in 2008 and to get Obamacar ...[text shortened]... ed the art of the deal, buying a hotel in Atlanta is not the same as negotiating legislation. 😵
Except this wasn't Trump's deal. It was Ryan's lazy POS deal and I think Ryan was telling Trump he had the votes until it was too late. I think by threatening to back someone else for speaker and also threatening to just work with the dems instead of the freedom boys, Trump may get the GOP factions into compromise mode. He threatened Ryan with that Judge Jeanine stunt last night, and he sent out Priebus on Fox this morning to threaten to start working with dems. It's an interesting ploy. Hope it works.
Originally posted by Sleepyguy Except this wasn't Drumpf's deal. It was Ryan's lazy POS deal and I think Ryan was telling Drumpf he had the votes until it was too late. I think by threatening to back someone else for speaker and also threatening to just work with the dems instead of the freedom boys, Drumpf may get the GOP factions into compromise mode. He threatened Ryan with that Judg ...[text shortened]... ox this morning to threaten to start working with dems. It's an interesting ploy. Hope it works.
it was drumpf's deal.
doesn't matter that he didn't help write it, or read it (if he can read). he is the one who promised a "terrific healthcare plan for all", he is the one who promised repeal and replace from day one.
Originally posted by Sleepyguy Except this wasn't Trump's deal. It was Ryan's lazy POS deal and I think Ryan was telling Trump he had the votes until it was too late. I think by threatening to back someone else for speaker and also threatening to just work with the dems instead of the freedom boys, Trump may get the GOP factions into compromise mode. He threatened Ryan with that Judge J ...[text shortened]... ox this morning to threaten to start working with dems. It's an interesting ploy. Hope it works.
From what I understand Ryan represents a faction that is its own universe, Corporate America and was arguing for a repeal of certain aspects of Obamacare to pay for tax cuts to people that don't need it. What I really don't understand about America although I am aware of the ideology is that no one talks of those 'socialist police' or those 'socialist firemen'. So why talk up a single payer system as if its some kind of socialist evil? It really makes no sense to me.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie From what I understand Ryan represents a faction that is its own universe, Corporate America and was arguing for a repeal of certain aspects of Obamacare to pay for tax cuts to people that don't need it. What I really don't understand about America although I am aware of the ideology is that no one talks of those 'socialist police' or those 'sociali ...[text shortened]... up a single payer system as if its some kind of socialist evil? It really makes no sense to me.
I think most US conservatives would answer that things like the police and national defense are legitimate functions of government, and are derived from powers clearly delegated to the federal govt from the several sovereign states. The delegation of the power to impose a national healthcare system is not as clear, though undoubtedly others will be along to correct me on this and tell me all about the commerce clause etc, and how it allows the govt to run amok as it pleases ignoring the constitution.
Originally posted by Sleepyguy I think most US conservatives would answer that things like the police and national defense are legitimate functions of government, and are derived from powers clearly delegated to the federal govt from the several sovereign states. The delegation of the power to impose a national healthcare system is not as clear, though undoubtedly others will be along t ...[text shortened]... erce clause etc, and how it allows the govt to run amok as it pleases ignoring the constitution.
I'm sure that if every U.S. state had implemented universal health care, health care reform wouldn't be a political issue in the U.S.
Originally posted by KazetNagorra I'm sure that if every U.S. state had implemented universal health care, health care reform wouldn't be a political issue in the U.S.
If the government would follow the Constitution, we wouldn't have this problem.
Really, if people think healthcare being free rightis umportant, they can move to Canada or Europe.
If they think being free is important, they could stay in the US.
Originally posted by Zahlanzi it was drumpf's deal.
doesn't matter that he didn't help write it, or read it (if he can read). he is the one who promised a "terrific healthcare plan for all", he is the one who promised repeal and replace from day one.
it is his failure too
Well Trump should have read and understood it because it wasn't going to deliver anything at all like what he promised. The freedom boys saved him from Paul Ryan's idiocy, arrogance, and laziness, and saved Trump from his own hurry. I think the GOP is going to be highly motivated to take another, better swing at.
Originally posted by Sleepyguy Well Trump should have read and understood it because it wasn't going to deliver anything at all like what he promised. The freedom boys saved him from Paul Ryan's idiocy, arrogance, and laziness, and saved Trump from his own hurry. I think the GOP is going to be highly motivated to take another, better swing at.
I find it very difficult to believe that Ryan never knew he didn't have the support right up to the last minute, either that or he is a very poor judge of Republican sentiment. I liked the Judge, I forget her name, Jeannie? Ryan back stabbed the President and needs to go. From what I can tell it was the actual content of the bill that Republicans were unhappy with, the far out right think it didn't go far enough and the moderates were looking at their constituents and thinking there is no way I am touching this, I want to keep my job.
Originally posted by Eladar If the government would follow the Constitution, we wouldn't have this problem.
Really, if people think healthcare being free rightis umportant, they can move to Canada or Europe.
If they think being free is important, they could stay in the US.
Look at you with your bumper sticker memes, get a grip for goodness sake. You are arguing against your own interests and don't even know it. Does Medicaid work? yes it works damn well, why not extend it then? because of some bumper sticker trope about freedom, man you are a spangle!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie So why talk up a single payer system as if its some kind of socialist evil? It really makes no sense to me.[/b]
Have you ever heard of the VA? It is the current socialist system to help care for veterans. Recently, they were caught in a scandal putting the very sick of the sick on secret off the record death lists cuz they are simply too expensive to treat.
Originally posted by whodey Have you ever heard of the VA? It is the current socialist system to help care for veterans. Recently, they were caught in a scandal putting the very sick of the sick on secret off the record death lists cuz they are simply too expensive to treat.
Do I want that health care? Nope.
So you are using an anomaly to prove what exactly? that you have a poor grasp of logic? Dude you should try to get all the medical help you can regardless. I have also heard of the socialist police and socialist fire brigade. Those damn Commies.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Look at you with your bumper sticker memes, get a grip for goodness sake. You are arguing against your own interests and don't even know it. Does Medicaid work? yes it works damn well, why not extend it then? because of some bumper sticker trope about freedom, man you are a spangle!
I have always had a job and insurance. Why do you assume people don't have jobs?
If you don't have one, get one.
Funny how high tax countries seem to have trouble having jobs and being self reliant.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie So you are using an anomaly to prove what exactly? that you have a poor grasp of logic? Dude you should try to get all the medical help you can regardless. I have also heard of the socialist police and socialist fire brigade. Those damn Commies.
How is Scotland going to get its independence when people like you believe you need England's welfare system?
Failure of GOP leadership
26 Mar '17 15:224 edits
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