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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 01 Jan '15 02:41
    reaction to market forces or economic warfare?
  2. 01 Jan '15 02:45
    Oil prices are fixed. OPEC has been fixing the prices by controlling production for years.

    Nice to see Russia and Iran take it on the chin.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Jan '15 02:54
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    reaction to market forces or economic warfare?
    Supply and demand would dictate oil prices even cheaper than they are now. Speculation was driving it up.

    Personally, I think higher oil prices are better for us in the long run, but that's a different story.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Jan '15 02:55
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Oil prices are fixed. OPEC has been fixing the prices by controlling production for years.

    Nice to see Russia and Iran take it on the chin.
    OPEC doesn't control the price of oil completely anymore.

    Frack, baby, Frack!
  5. 01 Jan '15 03:07
    Originally posted by sh76
    OPEC doesn't control the price of oil completely anymore.

    Frack, baby, Frack!
    All OPEC has to do is lower the price and fracking is no longer cost effective which is exactly what is happening.
  6. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Jan '15 03:19
    Originally posted by Phranny
    All OPEC has to do is lower the price and fracking is no longer cost effective which is exactly what is happening.
    Yep I've heard this theory too. At least the price should level out lower than what it was because even if they do undercut the price of fracking the threat will always be there of it starting again, and it should dampen some of the "we're about to run out, we're about to run out' scare mongers.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    01 Jan '15 03:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    reaction to market forces or economic warfare?
    Economic warfare. The US-Saudi axis is bringing the raging bear to its knees. The English bull dog is really a bull and bear baiting bloodsport dog. WOOF

    The once mighty Spanish bull is now the sad castrated ox YES JOVI NO BOVI
  8. 01 Jan '15 03:52
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    reaction to market forces or economic warfare?
    It's called spak'in Putin with a wet noodle.

    If it were not for Putin, I wonder if prices would be as low as they are now.
  9. 01 Jan '15 12:35
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Economic warfare. The US-Saudi axis is bringing the raging bear to its knees. The English bull dog is really a bull and bear baiting bloodsport dog. WOOF

    The once mighty Spanish bull is now the sad castrated ox YES JOVI NO BOVI
    I tend to agree with you. At first i couldn't understand why OPEC simply did not reduce output, it seemed to me to be suicidal not to. But of course the Saudis have years of reserves and a simple blip is not going to hurt them long term. Of course it has hurt the fracking industry because there has been a lot of investment in fracking which needed high oil prices to meet creditors. So why didn't OPEC simply reduce output? The only logical and reasonable conclusion is that there must be some other motive and when one sees who it hurts, all fingers point to the US. Russia, Iran and Venezuela, all good friends of the US.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Jan '15 13:03
    Originally posted by Phranny
    All OPEC has to do is lower the price and fracking is no longer cost effective which is exactly what is happening.
    In other words, they control it only if it's low.

    It's like my wife sometimes says "Honey, you can make the decision about where we're going as long as it's to dinner at my favorite restaurant."

    See Wajoma's point also about fracking always being an option.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    01 Jan '15 14:18
    Oil values are already a figment of a speculator's imagination and we will come to appreciate the significance of that in time. We have seen more than one crash through excessive speculation and more are coming soon enough.

    Saudi Arabia can not only screw Russia and Venezuela, but also North Sea oil and to some degree fracking, because their oil just spits up out of the sand with nothing like the investment required for other sources of oil. So it may be not only America's enemies that they are treating to this display of economic power.

    If the world was effective in deciding not to burn its oil reserves because the impact on our climate will be disastrous, then the economic value of those deep reserves would be reduced to a fraction if not to nothing. That is why so much is invested in climate change denial and political obstruction. The gamble is that, post climate change disaster, there is sufficient demand to retain the value of the reserves. I suggest not.
  12. 02 Jan '15 13:01
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Oil values are already a figment of a speculator's imagination and we will come to appreciate the significance of that in time. We have seen more than one crash through excessive speculation and more are coming soon enough.

    Saudi Arabia can not only screw Russia and Venezuela, but also North Sea oil and to some degree fracking, because their oil just s ...[text shortened]... change disaster, there is sufficient demand to retain the value of the reserves. I suggest not.
    I suspect it was collateral damage to other economies like the UK and even Canada that the Americans were prepared to risk. I don't know who formulates American foreign policy but they are playing a very dangerous game.
  13. 02 Jan '15 13:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    reaction to market forces or economic warfare?
    Saudi Arabia and the USA are allies in economic warfare with Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. Still trying to keep the petro dollar dominant by crushing any competing currencies. You already knew this though master.
  14. 02 Jan '15 14:47
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Yep I've heard this theory too. At least the price should level out lower than what it was because even if they do undercut the price of fracking the threat will always be there of it starting again, and it should dampen some of the "we're about to run out, we're about to run out' scare mongers.
    We need to find clean sources of energy less due to the fear of running out and more due to climate change.
  15. 02 Jan '15 16:58
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Saudi Arabia and the USA are allies in economic warfare with Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. Still trying to keep the petro dollar dominant by crushing any competing currencies. You already knew this though master.
    Actually Joe I was unaware, it was not until OPEC refused to cut back output before i knew something was nefarious was afoot!