Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    24 Mar '17 20:012 edits
    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_8_17.html

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--


    I do not believe anyone can argue that a National Park is a needful building. It seems to me that it is Unconstitutional.
  2. Standard memberHandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    At the edge
    Joined
    23 Sep '06
    Moves
    18031
    24 Mar '17 23:27
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_8_17.html

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by ...[text shortened]... n argue that a National Park is a needful building. It seems to me that it is Unconstitutional.
    I think you'll find this helpful:

    http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2489&context=facpubs
  3. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    25 Mar '17 02:52
    Phone doesn't like it.

    Where does the Constitution say the Feds can own state land in the form of parks?

    Just because the government does it does not make it constitutional.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    25 Mar '17 18:081 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Phone doesn't like it.

    Where does the Constitution say the Feds can own state land in the form of parks?

    Just because the government does it does not make it constitutional.
    You've already been quoted the relevant Constitutional provision. Congress can do whatever it pleases (almost) with Federal land:

    Article IV, sec 3: "Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or the property belonging to the United States."
  5. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    25 Mar '17 21:16
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    You've already been quoted the relevant Constitutional provision. Congress can do whatever it pleases (almost) with Federal land:

    Article IV, sec 3: "Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or the property belonging to the United States."
    When territories become states they are no longer part of the federal government.

    Get that important piece of the puzzle through your thick skull.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    25 Mar '17 21:21
    Originally posted by Eladar
    When territories become states they are no longer part of the federal government.

    Get that important piece of the puzzle through your thick skull.
    You keep saying that but have failed to support such a claim. Federal land remains the property of the Feds unless and until they cede it or sell it.
  7. Standard memberHandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    At the edge
    Joined
    23 Sep '06
    Moves
    18031
    25 Mar '17 21:461 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    When territories become states they are no longer part of the federal government.

    Get that important piece of the puzzle through your thick skull.
    Yours is much thicker. Read this from Wikipedia:

    The Admission to the Union Clause of the United States Constitution, oftentimes called the New States Clause, and found at Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1, authorizes the Congress to admit new states into the United States beyond the thirteen already in existence at the time the Constitution went into effect.

    The Constitution went into effect on June 21, 1788, after ratification by 9 of the 13 states, and the federal government began operations under it on March 4, 1789. Since then, 37 additional states have been admitted into the Union. Each new state has been admitted on an equal footing with those already in existence.

    Of the 37 states admitted to the Union by Congress, all but six have been established from an existing U.S. organized incorporated territory. A state so created might encompass all or a portion of a territory. When the people of a territory or a region thereof would make their desire for statehood known to the federal government, in most cases Congress passed an enabling act authorizing the people of that territory or region to frame a proposed state constitution as a step towards admission to the Union. Although the use of an enabling act was a common historic practice, a number of territories drafted constitutions for submission to Congress without one, but were still admitted to the Union.

    An enabling act would detail the mechanism by which the territory would be admitted as a state following ratification of their constitution and election of state officers. Although the use of such an act is a traditional historic practice, a number of territories have drafted constitutions for submission to Congress absent an enabling act and were subsequently admitted. The broad outline for this process was established by the Land Ordinance of 1784 and the 1787 Northwest Ordinance, both of which predate the present U.S. Constitution.
    The Admission to the Union Clause also forbids the creation of new states from parts of existing states without the consent of both the affected states and Congress. The primary intent of this caveat was to give Eastern states that still had western land claims (there were four at that time) a veto over whether their western counties could become states. This clause has served the same function since, each time a proposal to partition an existing state or states has arisen.
  8. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    25 Mar '17 22:25
    Once the territory becomes a state it is no longer Federal land.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    25 Mar '17 22:50
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Once the territory becomes a state it is no longer Federal land.
    Do you think saying something over and over and over again automatically makes it true?

    Federal land is Federal land until it is ceded or sold. A State once admitted no more takes over ownership of Federal land then it takes over private property in the prior Territory.
  10. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    25 Mar '17 23:22
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Do you think saying something over and over and over again automatically makes it true?

    Federal land is Federal land until it is ceded or sold. A State once admitted no more takes over ownership of Federal land then it takes over private property in the prior Territory.
    So once a state becomes a state it is still a territory?
  11. Standard memberHandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    At the edge
    Joined
    23 Sep '06
    Moves
    18031
    25 Mar '17 23:401 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Once the territory becomes a state it is no longer Federal land.
    The 50 states are not sovereign. Together (along with the District of Columbia) they comprise
    the United States, a nation administered by a federal government.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    26 Mar '17 00:29
    Originally posted by Eladar
    So once a state becomes a state it is still a territory?
    John Doe owns 100 acres in the Wyoming Territory.

    The Wyoming Territory is admitted into the Union as the State of Wyoming.

    Who owns the 100 acres?
  13. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    26 Mar '17 16:03
    Originally posted by HandyAndy
    The [b]50 states are not sovereign. Together (along with the District of Columbia) they comprise
    the United States, a nation administered by a federal government.[/b]
    Read what I quoted from the Constitution. Did they teach that document when you were in school. It limits what the Federal Government can physically own. It was required fir state's rights. As you saud, the Federal government could take control as the superior government.

    What percent of the original 13 States is owned by the Federal Government? Something like 1 percent is what I read. How about western states? 50 percent is what I read. How is that equal footing?
  14. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    26 Mar '17 16:04
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    John Doe owns 100 acres in the Wyoming Territory.

    The Wyoming Territory is admitted into the Union as the State of Wyoming.

    Who owns the 100 acres?
    When he bought it as a territory, yhe Federal government. When it became a state, the state.
  15. Standard memberHandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    At the edge
    Joined
    23 Sep '06
    Moves
    18031
    26 Mar '17 16:23
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Read what I quoted from the Constitution. Did they teach that document when you were in school. It limits what the Federal Government can physically own. It was required fir state's rights. As you saud, the Federal government could take control as the superior government.

    What percent of the original 13 States is owned by the Federal Government? Something ...[text shortened]... is what I read. How about western states? 50 percent is what I read. How is that equal footing?
    Your opinions are way off base. Note the following:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_lands

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_2:_Property_Clause
Back to Top