Remarkable, given current rhetoric, how traditionally religious America's Founding Fathers weren't. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin (not to mention Paine) -- Enlightenment gentlemen all -- are probably best described (like Voltaire) as deists. They seem to have believed something meaningful was out there, but did not seem too interested in intermediaries like Jesus, the Bible or the clergy. (Washington declined the attentions of a minister on his death bed.)
http://www.futureofthebook.org/mitchellstephens/archives/2006/07/founding_father.html
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion... From Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, 1796. Unanimously ratified by the U.S. Senate and signed by President John Adams.
Since then Christian evangelists have become a huge power in the US, even changing things like our money and Pledge of Allegience to imply that the US is a Christian nation. What happened to my country?
as the great Chris Rock said, "all my life i've been searching for God. And all this time he was right here in my pocket"[the dollar bills].
I never understood why Americans would put God on their money. In my oppinion a country should not be catholic or jew or muslim. Each citizen must choose his/her own religion. And more than that, dollars should definetely not be christian. If a muslim tries to buy milk and cookies, does he offend Allah for buying with christian money?
Christian religion (and most other religions) say that God is in all things. Then why have we chosen to only put him on money? Why doesn't General Motors put a logo on the fron sayin "In God we trust, may we not crash"
Originally posted by ZahlanziIsn't Allah also known as God?
as the great Chris Rock said, "all my life i've been searching for God. And all this time he was right here in my pocket"[the dollar bills].
I never understood why Americans would put God on their money. In my oppinion a country should not be catholic or jew or muslim. Each citizen must choose his/her own religion. And more than that, dollars should defi ...[text shortened]... hy doesn't General Motors put a logo on the fron sayin "In God we trust, may we not crash"
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Originally posted by AThousandYoungWhy should it matter what the people who founded this country believed in? They set up some useful things. We'll take those. We should not, however, abide by thier every belief as if they were gods themselves. I don't care if they were religious fanatics. That doesn't mean our country has to adopt that as its official doctrine. They owned slaves too. We had no problem departing from their ideology an that issue (well maybe a little problem, i.e., the civil war). The whole point was to have a government that is a product of the people. Dogmatically refrencing the beliefs of Jefferson, Franklin, et cetera, as principles that should guide our country today opposes thier original purpose, and seems to often be a rhetorical tool of the right used to disrtact attention away from what is going on in the here and now.
[i]Remarkable, given current rhetoric, how traditionally religious America's Founding Fathers weren't. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin (not to mention Paine) -- Enlightenment gentlemen all -- are probably best described (like Voltaire) as deists. They seem to have believed something meaningful was out there, but did not seem too intere ...[text shortened]... Pledge of Allegience to imply that the US is a Christian nation. What happened to my country?
Originally posted by slimjimthe god on the dollar bill i think is the christian God. i doubt the fathers were so open minded that they acknowledged the fact that there is only one God, no matter how you wish to believe in him or name him.
Isn't Allah also known as God?
Terrific -- more Christian bashing. I suggest you all read some history books so you can better appreciate what the founding fathers went through and how they not only survived, but prospered in an inhospitable, frontier wilderness, comforted and inspired only by their great faith. In fact, we should all be very thankful that men of faith founded America because, had all been liberals or Euro-socialists, they would not have survived that first winter.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterBut did they expect the future to be of an anti-establishment rebellion, and acts of terrorism and armed insurrection against the legal government of the time? Based upon such left wing principles as "all men created equal"... what commie nonsense is this?
Terrific -- more Christian bashing. I suggest you all read some history books so you can better appreciate what the founding fathers went through and how they not only survived, but prospered in an inhospitable, frontier wilderness, comforted and inspired only by their great faith. In fact, we should all be very thankful that men of faith founded ...[text shortened]... cause, had all been liberals or Euro-socialists, they would not have survived that first winter.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterWhere is the "christian bashing" in this thread??? For people that are supposed to be so "comforted and inspired by their great faith" you sure are a sensitive lot. Put the victim card back in your deck. No one's bashing christians. It's a debate forum. Everyone else here is discussing the topic...
Terrific -- more Christian bashing. I suggest you all read some history books so you can better appreciate what the founding fathers went through and how they not only survived, but prospered in an inhospitable, frontier wilderness, comforted and inspired only by their great faith. In fact, we should all be very thankful that men of faith founded ...[text shortened]... cause, had all been liberals or Euro-socialists, they would not have survived that first winter.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterFFS. How come whenever someone questions the place of Christianity in political institutions it's immediately attacked as "christian bashing"???????????????????????
Terrific -- more Christian bashing. I suggest you all read some history books so you can better appreciate what the founding fathers went through and how they not only survived, but prospered in an inhospitable, frontier wilderness, comforted and inspired only by their great faith. In fact, we should all be very thankful that men of faith founded ...[text shortened]... cause, had all been liberals or Euro-socialists, they would not have survived that first winter.
Just because you question something doesn't make it bashing. Cut the hyperbole and come back down to earth.
Originally posted by uzlessWithout the hyperbole he wouldn't have anything to post.
FFS. How come whenever someone questions the place of Christianity in political institutions it's immediately attacked as "christian bashing"???????????????????????
Just because you question something doesn't make it bashing. Cut the hyperbole and come back down to earth.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung[/i]It seems that both sides are trying to hijack the Founding Fathers to further their own political cause. The fathers aren't around anymore to contradict any of the combattants ......
[i]Remarkable, given current rhetoric, how traditionally religious America's Founding Fathers weren't. Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin (not to mention Paine) -- Enlightenment gentlemen all -- are probably best described (like Voltaire) as deists. They seem to have believed something meaningful was out there, but did not seem too intere ...[text shortened]... Pledge of Allegience to imply that the US is a Christian nation. What happened to my country?
Aren't you in exactly the same business as the other side regarding this issue ..... ?
[b]Where is the "christian bashing" in this thread?Here is the Christian bashing. How can you trust a person's judgment if he believes in virgin births, resurrection from the dead, that a father would let his son suffer a miserable death, plus drink blood and eat flesh at religious services? Christianity is a primitive religion that exists today in the same way that slime mold exists today in spite of all the evolution that has surpassed it.
Originally posted by ivanhoeI'm not hijacking anything. The Treaty of Tripoli was pretty clear.
[/i]It seems that both sides are trying to hijack the Founding Fathers to further their own political cause. The fathers aren't around anymore to contradict any of the combattants ......
Aren't you in exactly the same business as the other side regarding this issue ..... ?