Originally posted by hamltnblueWhat?! Are you on drugs?
I agree. But what if the consensus between news agencies suggested filling all the space shuttles up with water. Then launch the shuttles to the sun to put out some of the fire. The idea would be to put out some of the fire on the sun to make it cooler and stop global warming for all planets. Would you agree to that consensus? Now mind you it hasn't ...[text shortened]... ively proven that it would work, but would you go along with it like you are with the other BS?
I don't take my advice from the press. Neither does the government.
I get my information from the primary literature, so does the government.
The press and the "skeptics" tend to get their info from opinion pieces, look at how many of them Spastigov posts.
Originally posted by scottishinnzAh yes the gummint, now there's a vested interest. Is soviet style central planning going to work better at +.2C than it did in the old days.
What?! Are you on drugs?
I don't take my advice from the press. Neither does the government.
I get my information from the primary literature, so does the government.
The press and the "skeptics" tend to get their info from opinion pieces, look at how many of them Spastigov posts.
Originally posted by SpastiGovWell, to repeat myself a little, I do have to refer you to pages 6 and 8 of the consensus thread, you see there's this tiny little difference between me not having evidence and you choosing to ignore it.
Another sterling effort. Give yourself a pat on the back! 🙄
Interesting how the same can be said of you, considering your lack of a strong defence.
Originally posted by ZahlanziAhhh Ignorance. Some people have masters degrees in Socialism but can't tie their shoes or understand basic physics. (present company excluded)🙂 .
would you stop and reason for yourself? just because people don't like gore ad some of the AGW dude, they dismiss the hole idea.
If you don't believe what they are saying just look at it logically. Fine, don't buy a solar car or a car that consumes less because the earth is warming. buy it because we don't have unlimited supplies of oil and we need the ...[text shortened]... moking. doesn't matter what the reasons for doing this are, it would still be good for you.
I'm sure we shouldn't use oil to get our lazy ass to the supermarket. After all, The holywood elite and Global warming wacko's need the oil to fly their Learjets around the world at 5 gallons to the mile. The people driving electric cars don't realize that they pollute much more than a gas driven car. Even hybrids consume more energy and pollution over their lifespan. It's because the costs and energy to make the large batteries (which are rich in lead and Mercury) are extremely high. That's why they cost so much. Owners of some of the original hybrids are quickly learning another industry secret. Batteries last about 4 to 5 years on average before going bad. Replacement means big bucks and even more pollution to produce them. Also the recycling cost of the old batteries is very high. But all of this can be avoided by buying "Carbon Credits" There are actually many idiots out there that are buying them!!!!. If global warming was actually a problem and CO2 emissions were the cause than the liberals can solve it quickly. they could simply stop driving and use bikes to get to work. They could stop using air conditioners in their homes during the summer and heaters in the winter. They could sacrifice their pets in the name of their god Al Gore. After all their pets create Co2. They could also boycot their hollywood icons that create the most CO2 per capita in the world. Me? I'll just sit around and wait for the next ice age (which should be in about 10 years if the Liberals cycle repeats).
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Originally posted by hamltnblueWhen it is in abundance the folly is to attempt wisdom....
Ahhh Ignorance.
So you are now just going to quibble about the inconsistencies of transforming a trillion dollar dependence on the oil industry, that also affects and can be linked to the employment and lifestyles of billions of the globes citizens either directly or indirectly in some form of immediate or ancillary industrial activity, and instead of seeing the potential that going green will have in changing the quality of the air we breathe, you instead claim that its just too hard and you would rather go back to sticking your head into the sand or some other such dark recess and hope it all goes away?
It shouldn't take a scientist to tell you that belching out noxious gas into the atmosphere at an accelerating way all across the planet has got to be the most insane preoccupation that 21st century humanity is still hooked on.
Kennedy is correct. Whether you agree with his politics or not. If you betray the future of this planet by a could care less attitude hoping that someone else will clean up your crap, then I'm sorry if it doesn't sit well with your sensibilities. You are in the process of knowledgeably betraying the health of the earth, and on that basis, you are a traitor.
Originally posted by kmax87Oh no, he's not concerned enough with the earths health. Earth Traitor!
When it is in abundance the folly is to attempt wisdom....
So you are now just going to quibble about the inconsistencies of transforming a trillion dollar dependence on the oil industry, that also affects and can be linked to the employment and lifestyles of billions of the globes citizens either directly or indirectly in some form of immediate or anci ...[text shortened]... ess of knowledgeably betraying the health of the earth, and on that basis, you are a traitor.
The wages of treason is DEATH!
K max, I certainly hope the computer you're using gets its power from a pedal powered generator, or we might have to hang you also.
Hey! Is that a light on!? You'd better not let me catch you riding around in a car!
Originally posted by MerkYes it is a light on, but it is no longer incandescent. Yes this is a computer but the screen is an lcd. Yes I am part of the system. Yes I have bank and credit cards so by extrapolation I also consent to sweat shops in Asia, Africa and South America. But if I say thats that whatever happens happens, then I have given up.
Oh no, he's not concerned enough with the earths health. Earth Traitor!
The wages of treason is DEATH!
K max, I certainly hope the computer you're using gets its power from a pedal powered generator, or we might have to hang you also.
Hey! Is that a light on!? You'd better not let me catch you riding around in a car!
What is consumerism? Consumers! Who are the consumers? Everyone! Who caters to everyone? The Corporations. If we consume in a way that allows the corporations to continue as they are then we reap that harvest.
On the other hand when people make a fuss, even the most cynically marketed products( Take McDonalds for instance) do change to suit the perceived needs of their customers. What did Mcdonalds do in Australia? As a response to win back support for their products after "supersize me" and a litany of complaint as to how bad they were, they reinvented themselves and started to serve salad. Before you kneejerkand say it was just window dressing it made no difference ask yourself, when enough people said this product is no longer good, the corporation who understands one thing very well, falling sales and their ongoing profitability, responded with a salad menu.
Yeah small potatoes you say but if we ignore the mechanism we ignore the whole potential. People made a difference. Why did CFC's get banned in the states 20 odd years ago. Because people were just scared about ozone layer depletion and getting 3rd degree burns? Sales of CFC aerosol products took a total nosedive in the US which then had a ripple effect around the globe. As sales plummeted the companies responded with CFC free products.
What does that tell you. As the world gets more globalized, who becomes the natural political constituency that the transnational corporations are focussed on pleasing? Thats right you and me mom and pop 2.3 kids mortgage belted shopping malled Nestle weaned Heinz beaned Sarah Lee creamed joe do citizen.
As long as we say we like it like this, the corporate entities that cater to our needs and number as strong as nations in the top 100 economic forces on the planet will just keep on shoveling it in exactly the same way. When we the people demand better than that they simply change to keep taking our money.
They might not have any morals or ethics, but if we don't either well then we 're all going to hell with our boost set to the max.
The beauty of them being amoral however is that they are only concerned with profitability. If we stop buying pollution, it will be profitable for them to sell us clean energy.
A consumer democracy works as long as we the people maintain our standards. When we decide that we want something better, and enforce that decision by refusing to buy filthy dirty crap instead, the change will come so rapidly we will all be driving electric vehicles within a generation.
We have to take JFK's advice on this one..."Ask what you can do for your country"
Originally posted by kmax87Here is an interesting story from when I lived in Australia, this was back in the 80's mind you. There was a tv programme on the ecological effects of bleaching paper. The show pointed out that while there is an arguable necessity for bleaching paper in some applications (printing paper etc.) there was no good case to be made for bleaching things like coffee filters etc. Within a few weeks, it was impossible to get bleached coffee filters in supermarkets. People had simply stopped buying them. Market forces came into play and the more ecologically friendly unbleached alternative became mainstream. I don't know if it's still the same way, but it shows that market forces can be implemented in a very positive way without government intervention.
A consumer democracy works as long as we the people maintain our standards. When we decide that we want something better, and enforce that decision by refusing to buy filthy dirty crap instead, the change will come so rapidly we will all be driving electric vehicles within a generation.
Originally posted by agrysonStrange that, as in this country, when a program about the horrific conditions that supermarket-bound chickens are kept in, their sales went up that week. And we're supposed to be animal lovers!
Here is an interesting story from when I lived in Australia, this was back in the 80's mind you. There was a tv programme on the ecological effects of bleaching paper. The show pointed out that while there is an arguable necessity for bleaching paper in some applications (printing paper etc.) there was no good case to be made for bleaching things like coffee ...[text shortened]... that market forces can be implemented in a very positive way without government intervention.