Originally posted by sh76however, the gov. will still be the major stock holder. I doubt they will ever give that up. I believe that will affect the consumer because they will dictate the Type of cars made. I predict in 10 yrs all they will offer is cars like Mr. Bean drives around in 🙂
GM is NOT FOLDING. They are filing for Chapter 11; that is reorganization. GM is not ceasing to do business. They may come out of this eventually stronger than ever. Continental Airlines, Delta, United and many other airlines have, at one point or another, went into Chapter 11.
Some dealerships may close, but the average consumer will barely notice the difference.
Six months ago, when the auto makers first came in search of taxpayer money we were told that bankruptcy would ruin them. So, tens of billions of dollars were doled out to them. But this was insufficient to avoid bankruptcy which many of us said GM should have filed for at the time. And tens of thousands of jobs will be lost anyway.
What a waste.
Originally posted by no1marauderI agree with that 100%. GM should have been forced to file for Chapter 11 months ago. There was never a realistic chance they were going to avoid Chapter 11 in the long run without continuous and enormous federal gifts.
Six months ago, when the auto makers first came in search of taxpayer money we were told that bankruptcy would ruin them. So, tens of billions of dollars were doled out to them. But this was insufficient to avoid bankruptcy which many of us said GM should have filed for at the time. And tens of thousands of jobs will be lost anyway.
What a waste.
Originally posted by utherpendragonI really hope the government isn't going to be the owner of an auto company over the long term -- I think the idea is for the government to own the company until some major restructuring has been done and then sell it back to the private market and hopefully come out of it with a profit.
however, the gov. will still be the major stock holder. I doubt they will ever give that up. I believe that will affect the consumer because they will dictate the Type of cars made. I predict in 10 yrs all they will offer is cars like Mr. Bean drives around in 🙂
But even if the government did retain ownership and produce a fleet of Bean-mobiles, those consumers that share Mr. Bean's tastes in cars would buy them -- and the rest would buy from one of the many other automakers.
Originally posted by Sam The ShamWell, I wouldn't go that far.
Something like a hundred billion to bail them out and they go bankrupt anyway. Government just flushed all that money down the toilet.
That money did go into the economy. It's not all that much different from the rest of the bailout money in the end.
Originally posted by MelanerpesName three famous French Marques. Peugot, Renault and Citroen all are stilll to some extent or have been fully and still are 100% owned by the State of France. It hasn't hurt their ability to keep up with and define some of the emerging motoring trends over the past 20 years has it?
I really hope the government isn't going to be the owner of an auto company over the long term --
Originally posted by Sam The ShamWell, if you ever believed in Reagan's "trickle down", you don't sound like you do now. What other parts of Reaganism do you recant?
Something like a hundred billion to bail them out and they go bankrupt anyway. Government just flushed all that money down the toilet.
The UAW has to take a fair share of the blame in bringing GM down. I know from talking to UAW guys that, once you get enough seniority, you can sit on or butt and collect $35+/hr for doing absolutely nothing ($67,000/yr). You can't be fired easily because union rules say that lay-offs occur on a last-in, first-out basis. The only leverage management has over the 'dead wood' is that they don't offer them overtime or better levels.
Toyota plants in the US, in contrast, pay far less.
I'm not saying stagnant leadership and uninspired strategies weren't also at fault with GM. But I think both officers and crew played a role in sinking this ship.
As for the French, unions and government ownership are the rule -- and maybe you can't have one without the other? Maybe government as a neutral third party can force unions not to be too greedy? Not sure.
"In return for its support, the Obama administration is likely to get a 60% ownership stake in the company. Canada's government, which is contributing billions of dollars in further help, will get 12.5% with unions and bondholders holding the rest." http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/01/general-motors-bankruptcy-chapter-11
Canada? How interesting!
Originally posted by spruce112358I got one word you forgot to include:- Dealerships.
I'm not saying stagnant leadership and uninspired strategies weren't also at fault with GM. But I think both officers and crew played a role in sinking this ship.
Look at the efficiency of the Toyota dealership chain compared to the GM bloated version, and work out where the real problem as a proportion of fixed costs actually lies.
Originally posted by no1maraudernot true. You were told that an IMMEDIATE bankruptcy would ruin the economy. The money was given to allow for a controlled bankruptcy.
Six months ago, when the auto makers first came in search of taxpayer money we were told that bankruptcy would ruin them.
Get yer facts straight.