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Debates Forum

  1. 04 Feb '15 12:05
    http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/05/news/thune-gas-tax-increase/index.html

    In the wake of Obama wanting to raise taxes to repair and build roads, something the government should have been doing all along verses uses revenue for such things as giving it to illegal aliens, the GOP will not be outdone. They want to raise taxes to do the same thing as well.

    Yay, its the conservative revolution at work!
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    04 Feb '15 13:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/05/news/thune-gas-tax-increase/index.html

    In the wake of Obama wanting to raise taxes to repair and build roads, something the government should have been doing all along verses uses revenue for such things as giving it to illegal aliens, the GOP will not be outdone. They want to raise taxes to do the same thing as well.

    Yay, its the conservative revolution at work!
    I've always liked John Thune. Conservative, but also open to reason (unlike the Teabots). That he beat Tom Daschle while he was Senate Majority Leader is a bonus.

    Increasing the gasoline tax when gas prices are low to finance needed infrastructure projects and maybe to even discourage irresponsible overuse of gasoline is the epitome of common sense.

    I'd love for someone to try to make a rational counterargument.

    The only change I'd make to the proposal is that I'd double it. Or triple it.
  3. 04 Feb '15 13:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    I've always liked John Thune. Conservative, but also open to reason (unlike the Teabots). That he beat Tom Daschle while he was Senate Majority Leader is a bonus.

    Increasing the gasoline tax when gas prices are low to finance needed infrastructure projects and maybe to even discourage irresponsible overuse of gasoline is the epitome of common sense.

    I'd love for someone to try to make a rational counterargument.
    What's to argue sh? Gas is low so let's tax the hell out of it!!

    Meanwhile, the government continues to use tax payer money to fund such things as artists placing a crucifix in urine or studying the mating rituals of wild bores.

    But hey, Whodey lives on the extremist fringe so don't listen to me. The status quo is really the best for all.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    04 Feb '15 13:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    What's to argue sh? Gas is low so let's tax the hell out of it!!

    Meanwhile, the government continues to use tax payer money to fund such things as artists placing a crucifix in urine or studying the mating rituals of wild bores.
    === Gas is low so let's tax the hell out of it!!===

    Exactly!

    ===Meanwhile, the government continues to use tax payer money to fund such things as artists placing a crucifix in urine or studying the mating rituals of wild bores.===

    I'm not going to argue in favor of the NEA, but its share of the budget is infinitesimal. Cut the whole NEA for all I care. You'll get to keep another penny each paycheck. Congratulations. Now, why don't you stay on point? Why is it a bad idea to raise gasoline tax to finance needed infrastructure projects? If the gas tax was raised so that you paid $3.00 at the pump, that's still lower than you paid last year, OPEC gets hurt because you keep depressing demand while they get a smaller piece of the pie because of low petroleum prices and you help the environment. Plus, you help stimulate the economy with infrastructure projects.
  5. 04 Feb '15 14:56
    Originally posted by sh76
    === Gas is low so let's tax the hell out of it!!===

    Exactly!

    ===Meanwhile, the government continues to use tax payer money to fund such things as artists placing a crucifix in urine or studying the mating rituals of wild bores.===

    I'm not going to argue in favor of the NEA, but its share of the budget is infinitesimal. Cut the whole NEA for all I care. ...[text shortened]... and you help the environment. Plus, you help stimulate the economy with infrastructure projects.
    The time has come to focus on government waste and corruption. I'm tired of being sold the notion that we have to raise taxes to keep police on the streets, firemen on the ready, bridges that will stay functional, all the while mass corruption continues and waste that neither Democrat nor Republican denies. In short, I grow weary of being threated with services people are dependent upon while those nonessential services or pork is just ignored. I'm tired of people saying that because they think I could pay more I should pay more, simply because they think I can afford it.

    And how many lemmings really believe that gas prices will not go back up?

    Here is an idea, why not just make the gas price progressive? I thought all these guys were progressives. That means if you drive up in a Lexus, you pay a different amount than if you drive up in a used Honda Civic? Or you could have a bar scan for income levels when fueling up. Or even better, why not have gas stations for the rich and the poor, stores for the rich and the poor, why not just segregate society entirely based upon income status cause certain people are deemed to be able to afford it than others?

    It only makes sense with busybody bureaucrats who always know who could pay more than they are.
  6. 04 Feb '15 14:58
    Issues like this just go to prove there is no real difference between the GOP and DNC.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    04 Feb '15 15:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    The time has come to focus on government waste and corruption. I'm tired of being sold the notion that we have to raise taxes to keep police on the streets, firemen on the ready, bridges that will stay functional, all the while mass corruption continues and waste that neither Democrat nor Republican denies. In short, I grow weary of being threated with ser ...[text shortened]...
    It only makes sense with busybody bureaucrats who always know who could pay more than they are.
    Then when the prices go up, you can cut the taxes.

    Ironically, the best way to keep prices from going up is to tax gasoline, thereby depressing demand.

    All the red herrings aside, higher gasoline tax makes excellent policy sense. If you don't like other policies, argue against the ones you don't like. But you haven't made a single argument against my argument in favor of high gasoline tax above.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    04 Feb '15 15:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Issues like this just go to prove there is no real difference between the GOP and DNC.
    Yes, whodey, there are issues on which politicians can agree with each other. Just because there are two parties doesn't mean they have to fight on everything.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    04 Feb '15 21:10
    Originally posted by sh76
    Then when the prices go up, you can cut the taxes.

    Ironically, the best way to keep prices from going up is to tax gasoline, thereby depressing demand.

    All the red herrings aside, higher gasoline tax makes excellent policy sense. If you don't like other policies, argue against the ones you don't like. But you haven't made a single argument against my argument in favor of high gasoline tax above.
    Obama proposes funding needed infrastructure repair and replacement with a tax on corporations that have stashed $2 trillion in profits overseas but don't have to pay any taxes on it because of an idiotic loophole.

    Some Republican (maybe just one) proposes funding needed infrastructure repair and replacement by increasing a regressive tax.

    Yeah no difference at all.
  10. 05 Feb '15 00:13 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Obama proposes funding needed infrastructure repair and replacement with a tax on corporations that have stashed $2 trillion in profits overseas but don't have to pay any taxes on it because of an idiotic loophole.

    Some Republican (maybe just one) proposes funding needed infrastructure repair and replacement by increasing a regressive tax.

    Yeah no difference at all.
    The thinking is the same. They sit around estimating who is able to pay and who is not and then adjusting policy accordingly.

    Really what business is it of anyones in regards to how much money you have and how much you should have? Here is a thought, after the American people have been raped by Wall Street, both rich and poor, courtesy of the Federal government, why not just let everyone keep the profits?

    I see no problems lurking by keeping gas where it is. It is ludicrous to think that the sky will fall if gas and oil prices remain where they are. It is also ludicrous to imagine that if taxes are raised further, the government will be good stewards of the money.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Feb '15 00:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    The thinking is the same. They sit around estimating who is able to pay and who is not and then adjusting policy accordingly.

    Really what business is it of anyones in regards to how much money you have and how much you should have? Here is a thought, after the American people have been raped by Wall Street, both rich and poor, courtesy of the Federal g ...[text shortened]... to imagine that if taxes are raised further, the government will be good stewards of the money.
    So how would you raise money to repair the country's roads, bridges, etc.?

    Please be specific.
  12. 05 Feb '15 01:06
    Originally posted by sh76
    I've always liked John Thune. Conservative, but also open to reason (unlike the Teabots). That he beat Tom Daschle while he was Senate Majority Leader is a bonus.

    Increasing the gasoline tax when gas prices are low to finance needed infrastructure projects and maybe to even discourage irresponsible overuse of gasoline is the epitome of common sense.

    I'd ...[text shortened]... ounterargument.

    The only change I'd make to the proposal is that I'd double it. Or triple it.
    The trouble is, that once gas taxes are raised, they will never be unraised. How about the seriously practical idea of repealing all gasoline taxes at the federal level, leaving States free to tax gasoline at whatever levels they need to support roads (not infrastructure).

    The gasoline tax was enacted in order to build and interstate highway system which has been mature for decades. All maintenance, improvement and repair is done locally, sometimes using federal funds. Why not collect the tax where the service is performed?

    The Federal gas tax, is now diverted to infrastructure and transportation from its original target of roads. I don't ride the bus, train or subway, so why is my gasoline tax funding those boondoggles? Why is it being used as a weapon to coerce my State legislature to actions it would not otherwise have done?
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Feb '15 01:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The trouble is, that once gas taxes are raised, they will never be unraised. How about the seriously practical idea of repealing all gasoline taxes at the federal level, leaving States free to tax gasoline at whatever levels they need to support roads (not infrastructure).

    The gasoline tax was enacted in order to build and interstate highway system w ...[text shortened]... ing used as a weapon to coerce my State legislature to actions it would not otherwise have done?
    Why have any Federal government at all?

    Your constant "anarchist" harping is tiresome.
  14. 05 Feb '15 01:20
    Originally posted by sh76
    Then when the prices go up, you can cut the taxes.

    Ironically, the best way to keep prices from going up is to tax gasoline, thereby depressing demand.

    All the red herrings aside, higher gasoline tax makes excellent policy sense. If you don't like other policies, argue against the ones you don't like. But you haven't made a single argument against my argument in favor of high gasoline tax above.
    "Then when the prices go up, you can cut the taxes."

    Fat chance of that ever happening.

    "Ironically, the best way to keep prices from going up is to tax gasoline, thereby depressing demand. "

    Then the "price" will include a huge margin for government, which they can redirect to all sorts of good deeds programs. It will end up like cigarettes where the producer gets a tiny portion of the selling price, and the government does what it wants to with the loot. The original good idea of smoking cessation is forgotten as the government gets addicted to the revenue. Also, once started down this road, it'll become a favorite place for tax increases, as before long the regular joe will no longer be able to afford a car or truck, and the tax will have to support the auto industry layoffs.

    Make no mistake, the limitations of where gas tax money goes are almost all gone already, and those that are left will soon fall. They only right thing to do is put gas tax collection back in the hands of the States where the work is actually done. Leave it to Obama, and the shovel ready jobs will end up being Wall Street brokers.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Feb '15 01:22
    Originally posted by normbenign
    "Then when the prices go up, you can cut the taxes."

    Fat chance of that ever happening.

    "Ironically, the best way to keep prices from going up is to tax gasoline, thereby depressing demand. "

    Then the "price" will include a huge margin for government, which they can redirect to all sorts of good deeds programs. It will end up like cigarettes whe ...[text shortened]... ually done. Leave it to Obama, and the shovel ready jobs will end up being Wall Street brokers.
    Abolish the Federal government and be done with it.

    The biggest failing of Obama's original stimulus program was that he routed projects through the State bureaucracies. Why repeat that mistake but on a much grander scale?