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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 09 Feb '18 00:58
    And liberals want this?


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/08/patients-suffering-direct-result-nhs-wait-time-failures

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/social-care-vacancies-audit-office-11988585
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    09 Feb '18 07:19
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    And liberals want this?


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/08/patients-suffering-direct-result-nhs-wait-time-failures

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/social-care-vacancies-audit-office-11988585
    The NHS isn't perfect. Never will be.

    But it is one of the best (if not THE best) healthcare systems in the world.

    The NHS runs on far less money per capita than
    the US system. AND delivers far better outcomes.

    I'm sure I've posted proof of this here as have
    others so I will not justify those claims again.
    But go search and try and disprove me.
  3. 09 Feb '18 07:36
    To be completely fair... the US system has a lot of market inhibitors that very drastically impact the industry.

    It would not be accurate to describe the US health care market as free market, and it would not be accurate to describe it as socialistic. It truly is a very, very deeply mixed system and it has been, to some degree, designed to fail.

    I have heard it said that Obamacare (or the Affordable Care Act) was utterly problem riddled from the moment of rollout and was not sustainable. One of the reasons for this, though, was because everyone suspected that Clinton would have become the President and therefore they could just socialize the system further and march towards a final destination.

    So, what can you say about "the free market" system? I'm not sure. We haven't properly tried it for decades now.
  4. 09 Feb '18 07:38
    But let me also say this... the healthcare systems in older times were never truly free market either as the bulk of people literally just depended on charity, and the bulk of doctors and healers were on retainer from Nobles who would let them serve regular people as an act of charity.

    The Church very much was insturmental in the development and provision of healthcare to the masses.

    Traditionally, a lot of people did not conceive of this as a market.

    Should we do so now?

    Not sure.

    But one thing is for sure: whenever the government is involved in runnign something that becomes potentially exceedingly complicated there are a lot of issues concerning austerity within service provision. We have to have realistic expectations.
  5. 09 Feb '18 08:48 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    And liberals want this?


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/08/patients-suffering-direct-result-nhs-wait-time-failures

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/social-care-vacancies-audit-office-11988585
    Nationalised healthcare is the best way to go. It is, or should be, a civil right to have access to your county’s high quality healthcare system. Similarly with education.
  6. 09 Feb '18 09:02 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @jacob-verville
    It I have heard it said that Obamacare (or the Affordable Care Act) was utterly problem riddled from the moment of rollout and was not sustainable.
    The inception of the National Health Service on July 5th 1948 was IMO one of the proudest days in UK history, it was the climax of true political social vision coupled with a commitment to change which was resolute irrespective of the cost. Social vision is like that, it requires a desire to move forward that is driven not by economic forces but by an energy which comes from a willingness to see a fundamental good in something that is worth paying for. Obama had vision and it is an absolute travesty that Trump has overturned The Affordable Health Act. Why oh why would a nation not want affordable healthcare for all its citizens. Astonishing.
  7. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    09 Feb '18 09:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    The inception of the National Health Service on July 5th 1948 was IMO one of the proudest days in UK history, it was the climax of true political social vision coupled with a commitment to change which was resolute irrespective of the cost. Social vision is like that, it requires a desire to move forward that is driven not by economic forces but by an e ...[text shortened]... Act. Why oh why would a nation not want affordable healthcare for all its citizens. Astonishing.
    On the one hand you say economics don't come into it on the other hand you employ economics even if it's one of the worst suckers only need apply propaganda misnomers going haha the a f f o r d a b l e c a r e.

    If you thought healthcare was expensive, wait until it's free.
  8. 09 Feb '18 10:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    On the one hand you say economics don't come into it on the other hand you employ economics even if it's one of the worst suckers only need apply propaganda misnomers going haha the a f f o r d a b l e c a r e.

    If you thought healthcare was expensive, wait until it's free.
    Where did I say “economics doesn’t come into it”?

    Note: doesn’t, not don’t.
  9. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    09 Feb '18 10:04
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    And liberals want this?


    That's not what they want, they want you to believe in their dream feeling fantasies and if you resist they'll enlist the services of state thugs to make you conform. They don't care about waiting lists and health outcomes, all they care about is forcing their ideals on unwilling fellow citizens, being in control, and getting others to help them prop up some kind of inflated view that they know what's best for everyone.
  10. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    09 Feb '18 10:06 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Where did I say “economics doesn’t come into it”?

    Note: doesn’t, not don’t.
    divegeester "i r r e s p e c t i v e o f t h e c o s t"



    You're so blinded by the propaganda you don't even realise it's pooting out of your mouth
  11. 09 Feb '18 10:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    divegeester [b]"i r r e s p e c t i v e o f t h e c o s t"



    You're so blinded by the propaganda you don't even realise it's pooting out of your mouth[/b]
    Cost is only one aspect of “economics” or of a project. It’s also relative and is a factor of its own return overtime, wouldn’t you agree?

    No one is saying it’s is “free” as you claimed in your previous post.
  12. 09 Feb '18 10:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    You're so blinded by the propaganda you don't even realise it's pooting out of your mouth
    What propaganda do you think has impacted my respect for the inception of the NHS, or for my dismay at the demise of accessible affordable healthcare in the US?
  13. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    09 Feb '18 10:24
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Coat is only one aspect of “economics” or of a project. It’s also relative and is a factor of its own return overtime, wouldn’t you agree?

    No one is saying it’s is “free” as you claimed in your previous post.
    Ohh plenty of people are throwing around the 'free' word, it doesn't occur around here so much now because they've had their knuckles rapped too many times.

    Here's the factor, all those that believe in the affordable healthcare act band together voluntarily and form your own organisation. See how simple that is, everyone's happy.

    Funny how cost is of so little concern when you're dipping your hand in other peoples pockets.
  14. 09 Feb '18 10:58
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Ohh plenty of people are throwing around the 'free' word, it doesn't occur around here so much now because they've had their knuckles rapped too many times.

    Here's the factor, all those that believe in the affordable healthcare act band together voluntarily and form your own organisation. See how simple that is, everyone's happy.

    Funny how cost is of so little concern when you're dipping your hand in other peoples pockets.
    I meant I am not saying free, I didn’t say free, I’m not claiming it’s free, it’s not free, very little in life is free,

    How’s that.
  15. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    09 Feb '18 11:04
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I meant I am not saying free, I didn’t say free, I’m not claiming it’s free, it’s not free, very little in life is free,

    How’s that.
    Noted, nice going, thumbs up.