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Debates Forum

  1. 18 May '15 09:08
    sorry this is a little late

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIhKAQX5izw

    May 10th, honoring mothers everywhere (US at least). Mothers are the best , wouldn't you agree? they deserve the very best. As long as it is not too inconvenient to provide.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/-sp-america-only-developed-country-paid-maternity-leave
    It is funny that we had a discussion about how unfair women getting less pay is and one of the arguments (flawed arguments) supporting the current situation was "well they have babies, they should be paid less". who knew it wasn't even paid leave?

    For those that won't click on the youtube: US and Papua New Guinea are the only countries that don't offer paid maternity leave. Isn't it a grand club to be in?
  2. 18 May '15 10:23
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    sorry this is a little late

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIhKAQX5izw

    May 10th, honoring mothers everywhere (US at least). Mothers are the best , wouldn't you agree? they deserve the very best. As long as it is not too inconvenient to provide.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/-sp-america-only-developed-country-paid-maternity-leave ...[text shortened]... ea are the only countries that don't offer paid maternity leave. Isn't it a grand club to be in?
    Is there no namby pamby fluffy issue that you are not involved with, when are you going to go against the grain for once, stand up and be a man!
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    18 May '15 13:08
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    sorry this is a little late

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIhKAQX5izw

    May 10th, honoring mothers everywhere (US at least). Mothers are the best , wouldn't you agree? they deserve the very best. As long as it is not too inconvenient to provide.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/-sp-america-only-developed-country-paid-maternity-leave ...[text shortened]... ea are the only countries that don't offer paid maternity leave. Isn't it a grand club to be in?
    How about we let the market decide who should get paid leave and for what rather than having government mandate everything?

    Perhaps forcing employers to offer paid maternity leave encourages unspoken discrimination against women who are or may become pregnant in employment decisions.
  4. 18 May '15 13:18
    Originally posted by sh76
    How about we let the market decide who should get paid leave and for what rather than having government mandate everything?

    Perhaps forcing employers to offer paid maternity leave encourages unspoken discrimination against women who are or may become pregnant in employment decisions.
    Simple solution: taxpayer-funded maternity/paternity leave.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    18 May '15 14:06
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Simple solution: taxpayer-funded maternity/paternity leave.
    Simple question: Why?

    Why incentivize having children?

    I get why Europeans should do it. With negative population growth, it makes sense for government to socially engineer population growth. But we don't have that problem.
  6. 18 May '15 14:28
    Originally posted by sh76
    Simple question: Why?

    Why incentivize having children?

    I get why Europeans should do it. With negative population growth, it makes sense for government to socially engineer population growth. But we don't have that problem.
    I don't think having children needs to be "incentivized," it just makes sense to me that when people choose to have children someone is there full-time at least for the first couple of months and I'm happy to financially contribute to making that possible.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    18 May '15 15:49
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I don't think having children needs to be "incentivized," it just makes sense to me that when people choose to have children someone is there full-time at least for the first couple of months and I'm happy to financially contribute to making that possible.
    You may be happy to contribute, but I don't know if most people are. For government to tax and spend on something, it should be:

    1. Something necessary for basic human dignity

    OR

    2. Something worthwhile for society use socially engineer to encourage the underlying behavior

    I don't see paid maternity/ free childcare as being either.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    18 May '15 18:26
    Interestingly, I got this email from Obama For America* today:


    Mad Men came to an end last night. (Don't worry -- no spoilers here.)

    I'm writing today because it's past time to put the workplace policies from the 1960s behind us, too.

    The United States is the only developed nation in the world that does not offer paid leave for new mothers, and 43 million Americans working in the private sector are without any form of paid sick leave.

    That should change.

    OFA supporters are taking a stand on this -- add your name if you believe that paid leave is a worker's right, not a privilege.

    Things like paid sick days, leave for new parents, and affordable child care, aren't women's issues -- these are economic issues, plain and simple.

    A woman deserves the right to take some time off to care for a new baby, but many can't afford to take unpaid leave. Mothers -- and fathers, too -- deserve the ability to take a day off when they need to in order to properly care for a sick child, an aging parent, or for themselves.

    Earlier this year, I took action to ensure federal employees have access to at least six weeks of paid leave when a new child arrives, and I called on Congress to follow suit. My administration laid out a plan to help states and cities implement policies of their own.

    This isn't just the right thing to do -- it's the smart approach for our economy.

    Let's move our workplace policies into the 21st century. Make your voice heard with OFA today:

    http://my.barackobama.com/Time-For-Paid-Leave

    Thanks,

    Barack Obama


    "paid leave is a worker's right, not a privilege"

    Oy



    * I once contributed to a campaign of a Democratic friend of mine who was running for state Senate and I guess that got me on these Dem mailing lists, so I get these OFA emails....
  9. 18 May '15 18:41
    Originally posted by sh76
    You may be happy to contribute, but I don't know if most people are. For government to tax and spend on something, it should be:

    1. Something necessary for basic human dignity

    OR

    2. Something worthwhile for society use socially engineer to encourage the underlying behavior

    I don't see paid maternity/ free childcare as being either.
    Most people around here are. Of course if you think that newborn children should be neglected/not given enough attention by their parents because they feel they cannot cope financially otherwise, then who am I to disagree?
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 May '15 02:33
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Most people around here are. Of course if you think that newborn children should be neglected/not given enough attention by their parents because they feel they cannot cope financially otherwise, then who am I to disagree?
    Oh, please. Your adding the "cannot cope financially otherwise" is a red herring as you know perfectly well that these programs are not means tested.
  11. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    19 May '15 03:15 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    sorry this is a little late

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIhKAQX5izw

    May 10th, honoring mothers everywhere (US at least). Mothers are the best , wouldn't you agree? they deserve the very best. As long as it is not too inconvenient to provide.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/-sp-america-only-developed-country-paid-maternity-leave ...[text shortened]... ea are the only countries that don't offer paid maternity leave. Isn't it a grand club to be in?
    Maybe if women had things so easy all the time, then we might not appreciate them when they turn out to be good mothers on Mother's Day. Now we wouldn't want that to happen, would we?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT99l8PaXn4
    To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

    (Genesis 3:16)
  12. 19 May '15 05:32
    Originally posted by sh76
    Oh, please. Your adding the "cannot cope financially otherwise" is a red herring as you know perfectly well that these programs are not means tested.
    What does being means-tested or not have to do with it?
  13. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    19 May '15 09:42
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    What does being means-tested or not have to do with it?
    Can't feed em? Don't breed em.
  14. 19 May '15 09:56
    Originally posted by sh76
    How about we let the market decide who should get paid leave and for what rather than having government mandate everything?

    Perhaps forcing employers to offer paid maternity leave encourages unspoken discrimination against women who are or may become pregnant in employment decisions.
    so we should let walmart for example decide for itself if it wants to give the cashier paid maternity leave or not? in whose interest will walmart decide?

    "Perhaps forcing employers to offer paid maternity leave encourages unspoken discrimination against women who are or may become pregnant in employment decisions."
    so you treat women badly in order to not treat women badly? is that what you are saying?
  15. 19 May '15 10:01
    Originally posted by sh76
    You may be happy to contribute, but I don't know if most people are. For government to tax and spend on something, it should be:

    1. Something necessary for basic human dignity

    OR

    2. Something worthwhile for society use socially engineer to encourage the underlying behavior

    I don't see paid maternity/ free childcare as being either.
    you don't think it somewhat diminishes one's dignity being forced to go to work on monday after pushing a human being out of their body on sunday?