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Debates Forum

  1. 15 Sep '10 20:05
    BS! Vince Young should have gotten it!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_heisman_bush

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/heisman-trophy-trust-decides-to-leave-reggie-bushs-award-vacant/1

    What would you have done with the 2005 Heisman Trophy if you were a part of the Heisman Trust?
    Allow Reggie Bush to keep the award
    30%
    Give it to Vince Young, who was second in voting
    44%
    Vacate award
    25%
    Vote TOTAL VOTES: 265
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Sep '10 20:11
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    BS! Vince Young should have gotten it!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_heisman_bush

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/heisman-trophy-trust-decides-to-leave-reggie-bushs-award-vacant/1

    What would you have done with the 2005 Heisman Trophy if you were a part of the Heisman Trust?
    Allow Reggie ...[text shortened]...
    Give it to Vince Young, who was second in voting
    44%
    Vacate award
    25%
    Vote TOTAL VOTES: 265
    I'd leave it with Bush. So he got some money and other benefits? BFD. It's not like he killed anyone; that was an entirely different USC running back.
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    15 Sep '10 20:20
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    BS! Vince Young should have gotten it!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_heisman_bush

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/heisman-trophy-trust-decides-to-leave-reggie-bushs-award-vacant/1

    What would you have done with the 2005 Heisman Trophy if you were a part of the Heisman Trust?
    Allow Reggie ...[text shortened]...
    Give it to Vince Young, who was second in voting
    44%
    Vacate award
    25%
    Vote TOTAL VOTES: 265
    Young didn't earn it on the field and doesn't deserve it.
  4. 15 Sep '10 20:29
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Young didn't earn it on the field and doesn't deserve it.
    eat them words, yankee!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young

    In his All-America 2005 season, Young led the Longhorns to an 11–0 regular season record. The Longhorns held a #2 ranking in the preseason, and held that ranking through the season except for one week when they were ranked #1 in the Bowl Championship Series.[17] Texas then won the Big 12 championship game and still held their #2 BCS ranking, which earned them a berth in the National Championship Rose Bowl game against the USC Trojans. Before the game, the USC Trojans were being discussed on ESPN and other media outlets as possibly the greatest college football team of all time. Riding a 34-game winning streak, including the previous National Championship, USC featured two Heisman Trophy winners in the backfield - quarterback Matt Leinart (2004 Heisman winner) and running back Reggie Bush (2005 Heisman winner).

    In the 2006 Rose Bowl, Vince Young put on one of the most dominating individual performances in college football history, accounting for 467 yards of total offense (200 rushing, 267 passing) and three rushing touchdowns (including a 9 yard TD scramble with 19 seconds left) to lead the Longhorns to a thrilling 41–38 victory. This performance led to him winning Rose Bowl MVP honors for the second consecutive season—becoming only the fourth player, in the history of the Rose Bowl, to be twice named MVP (and the only player from the Big 12 Conference). After the game, former USC and NFL safety Ronnie Lott said "Vince Young is the greatest quarterback to ever play college football."[10] Trojans coach Pete Carroll said "that was the best [performance] I've seen by one guy."[18] Young finished the season with 3,036 yards passing and 1,050 yards rushing earning him the Davey O'Brien Award.[19]

    Early in his collegiate career, Vince Young had been criticized as "great rusher...average passer", and his unconventional throwing motion had been criticized as being "side-arm"[20] as opposed to the conventional "over the top" throwing motion typically used by college quarterbacks. However, by the 2005 season most of the criticism had faded, and he developed into a consistent and precise passer. Young concluded the 2005 regular season as the #1 rated passer in the nation. Including the Big 12 Championship game and the Rose Bowl, he finished as the #3 rated passer in the nation, with a quarterback rating of 163.9.[21]

    ...

    Sean Jones, a member of the Oakland Raiders' personnel department, said:

    "All I need to know about Vince Young is that he came up with one of the greatest performances ever in the Rose Bowl. In the fourth quarter, I saw (USC coach) Pete Carroll throw every kind of blitz at Vince. I saw Vince read the blitz and beat the blitz. I don't care what his Wonderlic score is. The only score I care about is 41–38."[36]

    ...
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    15 Sep '10 20:31
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    eat them words, yankee!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young

    In his All-America 2005 season, Young led the Longhorns to an 11–0 regular season record. The Longhorns held a #2 ranking in the preseason, and held that ranking through the season except for one week when they were ranked #1 in the Bowl Championship Series.[17] Texas then won the Big 1 ...[text shortened]... what his Wonderlic score is. The only score I care about is 41–38."[36]

    ...
    His performance in the Rose Bowl is irrelevant to the Heisman which is based solely on regular season play. Bush won the Heisman vote not Young.
  6. 15 Sep '10 20:31
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Rose_Bowl
  7. 15 Sep '10 20:35
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    His performance in the Rose Bowl is irrelevant to the Heisman which is based solely on regular season play. Bush won the Heisman vote not Young.
    so sorry, Bush won while ineligible, he's been vacated, shed no tears for him.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    15 Sep '10 20:37
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    so sorry, Bush won while ineligible, he's been vacated, shed no tears for him.
    I don't. But Young who got about 1/10 of the first place votes as Bush did (http://www.manlyweb.com/sports/football/ncaa/heisman_votes.htm) doesn't deserve the Heisman just because Bush violated some off the field rules.
  9. 15 Sep '10 21:10 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    BS! Vince Young should have gotten it!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_heisman_bush

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/heisman-trophy-trust-decides-to-leave-reggie-bushs-award-vacant/1

    What would you have done with the 2005 Heisman Trophy if you were a part of the Heisman Trust?
    Allow Reggie ...[text shortened]...
    Give it to Vince Young, who was second in voting
    44%
    Vacate award
    25%
    Vote TOTAL VOTES: 265
    I haven't seen where they've explained their reasoning for vacating vs. giving it to Young. That might be interesting. I wonder if they figured it would make more of a long-term example of Bush. Barring something like that, it would make sense to give it to the second place finisher in the balloting under such circumstances since he was the first eligible placer. That Bush wasn't declared ineligible until after he played the entire season is irrelevant. He should be treated as if he didn't exist from the time of the infraction.
  10. 16 Sep '10 00:48
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    eat them words, yankee!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young

    In his All-America 2005 season, Young led the Longhorns to an 11–0 regular season record. The Longhorns held a #2 ranking in the preseason, and held that ranking through the season except for one week when they were ranked #1 in the Bowl Championship Series.[17] Texas then won the Big 1 ...[text shortened]... what his Wonderlic score is. The only score I care about is 41–38."[36]

    ...
    Yeah!!! The scout quote is the clincher 'cause everyone knows the Oakland Raiders have the best talent scouts in the history of the world! What's a matta? Couldn't find some other half-conscious winos with newspaper quotes?
  11. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    16 Sep '10 02:32
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Yeah!!! The scout quote is the clincher 'cause everyone knows the Oakland Raiders have the best talent scouts in the history of the world! What's a matta? Couldn't find some other half-conscious winos with newspaper quotes?
    Don't criticize zeeblebot's opinion if you're not sure what his opinion is. Criticize the opinion of someone else - which he cut and pasted, which appeared to be in accordance with zeeblebot's own opinion but may not actually be his opinion because it was someone else's and zeeblebot merely cut and paste it.
  12. 16 Sep '10 04:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    BS! Vince Young should have gotten it!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_heisman_bush

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/heisman-trophy-trust-decides-to-leave-reggie-bushs-award-vacant/1

    What would you have done with the 2005 Heisman Trophy if you were a part of the Heisman Trust?
    Allow Reggie ...[text shortened]...
    Give it to Vince Young, who was second in voting
    44%
    Vacate award
    25%
    Vote TOTAL VOTES: 265
    I agree. I remember when he marched into Ohio to play my Buckeyes. My Bucks had him beat but in the 4rth quarter he picked up the entire team on his shoulders and dragged them to victory just like he did in the NC win against USC. There are some intangibles that go beyond just the raw numbers that should be considered. Without a doubt, he was the MVP of college football as well as really good numbers to boot. Of course, the question begs for the naysayers, if Youngs numbers were not Heisman worthy why was he a runner up for the award in the first place?
  13. 16 Sep '10 13:40
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'd leave it with Bush. So he got some money and other benefits? BFD. It's not like he killed anyone; that was an entirely different USC running back.
    Sure, who cares that he did not play by the rules. I'm thinknig the man has a brilliant future in politics if you ask me.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    16 Sep '10 13:45
    Originally posted by whodey
    Sure, who cares that he did not play by the rules.
    Not me.

    The rules are stupid.

    The NCAA should be busted up by a massive antitrust lawsuit.

    As a conservative, you should be at the front of the line demanding an end to this mindless sanctimonious monopoly dictating the terms of the college sports market.
  15. 16 Sep '10 13:46
    Originally posted by sh76
    Not me.

    The rules are stupid.

    The NCAA should be busted up by a massive antitrust lawsuit.

    As a conservative, you should be at the front of the line demanding an end to this mindless sanctimonious monopoly dictating the terms of the college sports market.
    Conservatives may not agree with the law, but what they do not do is ignore the laws. The other side does that.