History of U.S. mandating vaccines

@no1marauder said
There is absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, in Jacobson remotely suggesting that the amount of the fine had anything to do with the decision on the merits. The Court specifically stated:

"It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether ...[text shortened]... eone from a job and excluding them from a college education as far as the legal principles involved.

The OP was about the Jacobson precedent specifically, not the vax mandates as presently constituted.

As it happens, with the test-out exception allowance, I do think the OSHA rules should be upheld (and probably will be). If there were no test out exception, I'd say they should be reversed.

Of course, that they're within state power is not the same question of whether they're a good idea.

@dood111 said
Isn't it odd that the libbies support forcing people to get vaccinations, but are dead set against requiring people to have an ID to vote?

Very odd.

And that comes from a fully vaccinated and booster shot recipient.
(I always figure I did things to my body that were worse than the government could come up with anyway, way back in the 70s and 80s).

I have worked over 50 years of my lifetime. That is a lot of commuting back and forth, and I live where you have to drive, there is no public transportation. To do all that driving, I have to have a driver's license. To purchase certain products at a store I have to show my ID. To check into a doctor's office or purchase medicine at WalGreens, ID required. But the left will quickly say Hell To The NO about voter ID.

@vivify said
Voter fraud is rare while diseases like COVID regularly kill thousands.

That was easy.

Voter fraud was widespread in the last election where have you been?
You don't really believe that all the states that Trump won were suddenly turned around the next day by mail in votes, do you?

@zahlanzi said
the penalty was 5$ because too few people thought about skipping the freakin polio vaccine.

what happened to vietnam draft dodgers, hmm?

DRAFT DODGER?
I thought we weren't
gonna' talk about TRUMP.

@sh76 said
The OP was about the Jacobson precedent specifically, not the vax mandates as presently constituted.

As it happens, with the test-out exception allowance, I do think the OSHA rules should be upheld (and probably will be). If there were no test out exception, I'd say they should be reversed.

Of course, that they're within state power is not the same question of whether they're a good idea.

I keep reading over Jacobson to try to find some support for your argument that a public health measure in the face of a deadly epidemic could only be enforced by a small fine but I admit I can't. Here the Court compares the power to draft into the army to the vaccine requirement at issue:

"The liberty secured by the Fourteenth Amendment, this court has said, consists, in part, in the right of a person "to live and work where he will," Allgeyer v. Louisiana, 165 U. S. 578, and yet he may be compelled, by force if need be, against his will and without regard to his personal wishes or his pecuniary interests, or even his religious or political convictions, to take his place in the ranks of the army of his country and risk the chance of being shot down in its defense. It is not, therefore, true that the power of the public to guard itself against imminent danger depends in every case involving the control of one's body upon his willingness to submit to reasonable regulations established by the constituted authorities, under the

Page 197 U. S. 30

sanction of the State, for the purpose of protecting the public collectively against such danger."

The "risk of being shot down" seems more severe than the risk of losing one's job, isn't it?

Moreover, Klaxxen seems to strongly imply that a general "test out exception" is unnecessary though it does support a claim that religious and/or medical exemptions might be required. Even at that, those who received said exemptions were required to undergo regular testing to maintain university attendance privileges.

You've made no rational argument as to why a vaccine "mandate" isn't a "good idea" in the face of a raging pandemic. Conceding, as you must, that it would increase the percentage of those vaccinated (by upwards of 20% according to the best data) among the targeted population, it would clearly reduce the spread of the disease and lead to less hospitalizations and deaths (unless you've decided to adopt MB's crank theories). So what makes that result not a "good idea"? A nominal decrease in so-called "liberty" that is really just a stubborn insistence on a non-existent "right" to spread a communicable disease? That seems hardly to be a countervailing weight.

@liljo said
Very odd.

And that comes from a fully vaccinated and booster shot recipient.
(I always figure I did things to my body that were worse than the government could come up with anyway, way back in the 70s and 80s).

I have worked over 50 years of my lifetime. That is a lot of commuting back and forth, and I live where you have to drive, there is no public transportation. To ...[text shortened]... ase medicine at WalGreens, ID required. But the left will quickly say Hell To The NO about voter ID.

Dunno, ain't needed I.D,
to vote for over 200 years,
and everything worked fine.
The party of small government
and deregulation wants a regulation
were no probIem exists..........
Do you wonder why?

@jimm619 said
Dunno, ain't needed I.D,
to vote for over 200 years,
and everything worked fine.
The party of small government
and deregulation wants a regulation
were no probIem exists..........
Do you wonder why?

Vote early, vote often.

@dood111 said
Voter fraud was widespread in the last election where have you been?

https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d

Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud

Trump's own hand-picked lapdog, Barr, said the Department of Justice found no widespread evidence of voter fraud.

Case closed.

@no1marauder said
I keep reading over Jacobson to try to find some support for your argument that a public health measure in the face of a deadly epidemic could only be enforced by a small fine but I admit I can't. Here the Court compares the power to draft into the army to the vaccine requirement at issue:

"The liberty secured by the Fourteenth Amendment, this court has said, co ...[text shortened]... -existent "right" to spread a communicable disease? That seems hardly to be a countervailing weight.

"it would clearly reduce the spread of the disease and lead to less hospitalizations and deaths (unless you've decided to adopt MB's crank theories)"

You have absolutely no evidence it would reduce the spread of the virus. If you are saying it reduces symptoms (because it is a treatment) that is fine, but it doesn't slow the spread of SARS2.

Cruise ships have had 100% vaccination rates of their passengers and crew. They still had illnesses. The vaccinated are clearly spreading the virus and they are having breakthrough cases.

WE CANNOT VACCINATE OURSELVES OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

It is not a crank theory, it is a fact and you have your head up you ass so far it is depriving your brain of oxygen. sh76 is right and you are wrong.

@vivify said
https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d

Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud

Trump's own hand-picked lapdog, Barr, said the Department of Justice found no widespread evidence of voter fraud.

Case closed.

Barr is from the CIA.
Nobody finds what they are not looking for.

@liljo said
Very odd.

And that comes from a fully vaccinated and booster shot recipient.
(I always figure I did things to my body that were worse than the government could come up with anyway, way back in the 70s and 80s).

I have worked over 50 years of my lifetime. That is a lot of commuting back and forth, and I live where you have to drive, there is no public transportation. To ...[text shortened]... ase medicine at WalGreens, ID required. But the left will quickly say Hell To The NO about voter ID.

None of those things (except voting) is constitutionally guaranteed.

@dood111 said
Voter fraud was widespread in the last election where have you been?
You don't really believe that all the states that Trump won were suddenly turned around the next day by mail in votes, do you?

Are you high?

@jimm619 said
Dunno, ain't needed I.D,
to vote for over 200 years,
and everything worked fine.
The party of small government
and deregulation wants a regulation
were no probIem exists..........
Do you wonder why?

It's pretty obvious why.

@metal-brain said
Barr is from the CIA.
Nobody finds what they are not looking for.

Trump personally selected Barr because of Barr's unquestioned fealty to Trump. If you think Barr wasn't searching every nook and cranny for even the remotest possible sign of voter fraud, you are uninformed.

Barr's very first act as AG was lying to the American public by misrepresenting the Mueller Report; Barr so distorted the report, that Mueller himself made a public statement refuting Barr's false statements.

Funny how every single conservative believes Barr *over Mueller* regarding Mueller's own report if it helps Trump; but when Barr says something that refutes Trump, (like no widespraed voter fraud) conservatives claim he's not to be trusted.