10 Sep 20
So the US president lied to his voters with an aim he sees as noble which is to avoid an economic panic. Without trying to go into detial if the economy could have fared better when playing with open cards and taking the right consequences, my question is:
How much economic value has a life?
So if you had to trade economic value for lives how many death people are acceptable for 1%point of econmic growth?
@ponderable said0 Europeans.
So the US president lied to his voters with an aim he sees as noble which is to avoid an economic panic. Without trying to go into detial if the economy could have fared better when playing with open cards and taking the right consequences, my question is:
How much economic value has a life?
So if you had to trade economic value for lives how many death people are acceptable for 1%point of econmic growth?
All the republicans in the world.
There’s a difference between normal human beings and right-wing scum.
10 Sep 20
@shavixmir saidDamn... that came out far nastier than I meant it... oh well.
0 Europeans.
All the republicans in the world.
There’s a difference between normal human beings and right-wing scum.
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10 Sep 20
@shavixmir saidThe well of anger from hence it sprung is understandable. Though it's probably best not to linger there too long.
Damn... that came out far nastier than I meant it... oh well.
The question posed by this thread is rather philosophical.
If I personalize the premise, the response is automatic and reflexive: My family is priceless. They're beyond any quantifiable value.
If I'm to force logical diligence toward humanity at-large: I'm still to be found in the humanists' corner. There is no price. There are only impossible thought-exercises which reduce me to shame.
10 Sep 20
@ponderable saidThis is not true. If he was simply trying to keep things calm he would've also had a plan to combat COVID-19. Yet he did nothing. Trump quite clearly denied the severity of the pandemic to favor Big Business so the rich can keep making money at the expense of the workers' health.
So the US president lied to his voters with an aim he sees as noble which is to avoid an economic panic.
Had Obama lied about a pandemic, regardless of his reason, conservatives would've accused him of mass murder.
@ponderable saidWhen you ignore the numbers of people in America that have committed suicide,
So the US president lied to his voters with an aim he sees as noble which is to avoid an economic panic. Without trying to go into detial if the economy could have fared better when playing with open cards and taking the right consequences, my question is:
How much economic value has a life?
So if you had to trade economic value for lives how many death people are acceptable for 1%point of econmic growth?
lost their jobs and homes, turned to drugs and alcohol because of lockdown,
naturally, you're left with a biased view.
@ponderable saidAre you really serious? Every liberal in these forums believes in abortion, which takes a life. Therefore to them, a life is worth nothing
So the US president lied to his voters with an aim he sees as noble which is to avoid an economic panic. Without trying to go into detial if the economy could have fared better when playing with open cards and taking the right consequences, my question is:
How much economic value has a life?
So if you had to trade economic value for lives how many death people are acceptable for 1%point of econmic growth?
10 Sep 20
@earl-of-trumps saidCould you give us numbers for Suicides which happened this year and the average of the last Five years?
When you ignore the numbers of people in America that have committed suicide,
lost their jobs and homes, turned to drugs and alcohol because of lockdown,
naturally, you're left with a biased view.
10 Sep 20
@averagejoe1 saidThat has not been the Question.
Are you really serious? Every liberal in these forums believes in abortion, which takes a life. Therefore to them, a life is worth nothing
How many abortions mean 1% economic growth? We would have a number then at least About which to discuss
10 Sep 20
@earl-of-trumps saidOr, if Trump had contained the virus at the beginning rather than lying and letting it spread out of control, maybe the months-long lock-downs wouldn't have been needed.
When you ignore the numbers of people in America that have committed suicide,
lost their jobs and homes, turned to drugs and alcohol because of lockdown,
naturally, you're left with a biased view.
10 Sep 20
@ponderable saidThis source
Could you give us numbers for Suicides which happened this year and the average of the last Five years?
https://chapterland.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/11/US_FactsFigures_Flyer.pdf
has the total number of suicide s at 48000. So even if all of These were a direct result of the Lockdown it would be far smaller than COVID-19.
And again the Question would be how many detah would you accept for 1% economic growth.
10 Sep 20
@averagejoe1 saidYour analogy does not hold, No one, liberal or otherwise, believes that by trivializing abortion, an economic downturn might be avoided. Trump, however, did believe that by trivializing the seriousness of the virus, an economic downturn would be avoided. This was a machiavellian gamble which has so far cost 190,000 Americans their lives.
Are you really serious? Every liberal in these forums believes in abortion, which takes a life. Therefore to them, a life is worth nothing
In answer to the OP, none.
10 Sep 20
@ponderable saidLife insurance payouts were of the order of £2 million when I last heard a figure which was of the order of 15 to 20 years ago. If we assume something in the range $2.5 to $5 million and GDP per capita of $50,000 (on the high side for the UK where Wikipedia gives $41,000, but spot on for Austria [1], by PPP that figures pretty close for the UK [2]) so we can just go with that $50,000 figure as representative and not get a ridiculous answer.
This source
https://chapterland.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/11/US_FactsFigures_Flyer.pdf
has the total number of suicide s at 48000. So even if all of These were a direct result of the Lockdown it would be far smaller than COVID-19.
And again the Question would be how many detah would you accept for 1% economic growth.
Growth of 1% corresponds with an increase of $500 per capita so we need 10,000 people to create wealth to make up for 1 death. So per 100,000 people we can afford 10 extra deaths. With a population of just under 68 million the UK would break even on 6,800 deaths if 1% growth were to cost that many lives.
The IFR of Covid is definitely larger than 0.1% (1 in 1,000) so even at the level of accountancy and assuming a 50% infection rate is needed for herd immunity it's not worth it.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
@averagejoe1 saidWell, there you go. I knew this was going to enter the debate as it always does.
Are you really serious? Every liberal in these forums believes in abortion, which takes a life. Therefore to them, a life is worth nothing
So, I may as well ask you.
Your undying support for Trump, another 4 year term for Trump.
What’s in it for you ?? You might as well put your cards on the table.
What do you expect in the next 4 years if Trump wins ?
I’ll venture a guess with a few basic fundamentals.
Freedom, less government control of society, and free market capitalism.
Although the 3rd point is just a feature of the 2nd point.
So let’s talk freedom and less government control.
What shape to you want those 2 pillars to take ?
Within the framework of a more conservative society instead of a liberal society.
Because conservatism does not coexist as well with freedoms as readily as liberalism.
Let’s discuss within the framework of the 2 biggest sore points amongst conservatives.
Same sex marriage and reproductive freedom.
Do you want to create a contradiction of a government that has less control over society and yet:
- wants to tell a woman she has no control over her body.
- wants to tell their citizens who they can and can not marry.
You do see the contradiction, don’t you ?
10 Sep 20
@ponderable saidThe total economic harm from COVID is too hard to calculate but just looking
This source
https://chapterland.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/11/US_FactsFigures_Flyer.pdf
has the total number of suicide s at 48000. So even if all of These were a direct result of the Lockdown it would be far smaller than COVID-19.
And again the Question would be how many detah would you accept for 1% economic growth.
at the suicide total. there can be a fashioned misery index, too. Not deaths,
but a lot of misery.
You want to stop 50,000 deaths per year? Ban autos/trucks and otherwise, driving.