How Woke has ruined business productivity

@zahlanzi said
how dare you change a system that has been working in my favour.

Strawman.

@wildgrass said

You don't like how language works on society.

No. I am fine with language. I like language. But you provide a vague definition of the word woke as "weaponized grievance" which is very different from how most people use the word. Then, you dis-qualify certain topics as being woke like guns and abortion. And now, you change the definition again, calling it a p ...[text shortened]... this thread. In this individual case, we're talking about business hiring practices, not grievances.

There are 330 million people in the US. It has become extremely common for people to claim to be offended and because of that to demand some from of retribution, compensation, or change of policy. Clearly there are cases where the complaints are legitimate, but we're talking about cases where the complaints are not, or are greatly exaggerated.

It such a large country, when grievances are incentivized there is 100% chance that some of those grievances are going to be illegitimate. The term "woke" has been utilized by those on the right to mock the later. I have explained that phenomenon and pointed out that that is what "woke" means when used by the right. Obviously it is meant as in insult when used this way.

I introduced the word "pejorative". Maybe I shouldn't have used such a big word on RHP. But you show clearly that you don't understand how language works. You think that by me pointing out that the word is meant as an insult that I've somehow changed my definition. That's not the case at all. "woke" describes a weaponized grievance. If it was not obvious from the very beginning that that is seen as contemptable by those using the word that way, I probably won't be able to help you further.

I have put forth a definition that can be used to understand the term and the phenomenon if that is what you're here for. If you want to quibble about precision in wording, I'll say again, virtually all definitions are open to quibbling and it is almost impossible to capture many words with a succinct yet all encompassing definition. You're playing a silly game.

Business hiring practices are affected by what lawyers fear might happen. If that was not obvious to you already, I can't help you with that either.

The term "woke" was used in the title, but almost immediately someone demanded a definition. I suspect that part of the reason that happened is that there is a very common talking point for those on the left that is often used by those who's debate skill amount to little more than cutting and pasting other peoples arguments. That talking point is that the "right" cannot even define woke. The result seems to be that even when it is defined, the left seem to want to stick with their silly game of pretending to have no idea what is meant when the right use the term "woke".

@techsouth said
There are 330 million people in the US. It has become extremely common for people to claim to be offended and because of that to demand some from of retribution, compensation, or change of policy. Clearly there are cases where the complaints are legitimate, but we're talking about cases where the complaints are not, or are greatly exaggerated.

It such a large country, ...[text shortened]... ith their silly game of pretending to have no idea what is meant when the right use the term "woke".

I think it was quite reasonable to request a definition since there are so many different ones that popped up recently, and the originator of this thread has admitted the definition is unclear, so we're stuck not knowing.

Yes, of course the definition of words change and are debatable but they still need to convey meaning. This word is so expansively describing conservative complaints, "grievances" about things in society that offend them, that you have rendered it utterly meaningless at this point.

Demand for retribution? Maybe. Since you seem to be an expert maybe you can answer this question. Why has the definition of a word that was used for 100 years to mean "an awareness of systemic racial disparities" suddenly morphed into something more like "pejorative term used to describe someone or something illegitimately demanding retribution"? Does that seem odd to you?

In this case, could it be that businesses want diversity hires because they want their workforce to include diverse opinions and ideas? Or as what was previously suggested, there's an interest in reducing subjective bias in hiring practices? Sort of like the old school, original, non pejorative meaning of 'woke'

@wildgrass said
I think it was quite reasonable to request a definition since there are so many different ones that popped up recently, and the originator of this thread has admitted the definition is unclear, so we're stuck not knowing.

Yes, of course the definition of words change and are debatable but they still need to convey meaning. This word is so expansively describing conservat ...[text shortened]... ve bias in hiring practices? Sort of like the old school, original, non pejorative meaning of 'woke'

You say the meaning is utterly meaningless, but those of us that lean right know what each other are talking about. We're not confused. If you choose to stay confused, that's your choice.

It seems expansive to you because you ignore part of the definition given. Particularly "It's defined by its fraudulent nature, as being distinct from legitimate social grievances." From that, you try very hard to make yourself stay confused.

People are people. Anyone can claim anything. What your doing is introducing absurd hypotheticals to try and nit-pick a definition.

Consider "fraud". We understand that word has meaning and we generally understand what it means. But what if there is a person who says that a person who takes a child tax credit is committing fraud. Is it fraud or not? AHA! That proves the definition is vague because a tiny fraction of people use the definition wrong. That's a silly way to operate.

That's about the same intellectual rigor your objection has. There is wide consensus among those who use "woke" as an insult what they mean. You can be confused or not, it changes nothing. I'm not going to engage your disingenuous argument and try to wordsmith something that will satisfy you.

And it's not odd. Words change meaning all the time. It is a relatively recent phenomenon that weaponized grievances have exploded all around us. We find words to describe what we see. That's how society works. Using "woke" as an insult is what has been done. It doesn't matter whether I think it's odd or not, that's what happened.

In regards to diversity hires.. I said this earlier on this thread...

Two types of injustices can happen:

1. Giving white males preferences over minorities who are better qualified.
2. Giving minorities preferences over white males who are better qualified.

It appears your mind can not be expanded enough to wrap around the possibility that both can be occurring in a country with 330 million people. Or that #2 might at time happen because of fear of lawsuits or public backlash rather than a genuine desire to hire a lesser qualitied person.

I have tried very hard to help you expand your mind. Sorry I failed you. Enjoy the rest of the discussion.

@techsouth said
You say the meaning is utterly meaningless, but those of us that lean right know what each other are talking about. We're not confused. If you choose to stay confused, that's your choice.

It seems expansive to you because you ignore part of the definition given. Particularly "It's defined by its fraudulent nature, as being distinct from legitimate social grievances." ...[text shortened]... ried very hard to help you expand your mind. Sorry I failed you. Enjoy the rest of the discussion.

Great post, but you are right, this will cause his mind to start bubbling, and he will lose his way, and that mindset will then work its way into his future posts, and drive us all crazy. In an earlier thread, Shav actually suggested that conservatives are the idealists, implying that liberals are realists. Of course, the reverse is true, these silly geese are wearing me out. This is how they will win in the end they will wear us down.

@AverageJoe1
Ask him to define the word ‘set’.

@soothfast said
I can't find it. Of course, I don't slum the cesspools of right-wing degeneracy that you do, so if that's where you dredged up your dreck, then you really should provide a link. Otherwise I don't believe a word of it -- especially coming from you, since (as I've said) you are known to be a liar and professional distortion artist.

Yeah, didn't think you had a link.

@techsouth said
You say the meaning is utterly meaningless, but those of us that lean right know what each other are talking about. We're not confused. If you choose to stay confused, that's your choice.

It seems expansive to you because you ignore part of the definition given. Particularly "It's defined by its fraudulent nature, as being distinct from legitimate social grievances." ...[text shortened]... ried very hard to help you expand your mind. Sorry I failed you. Enjoy the rest of the discussion.

There is wide consensus among those who use "woke" as an insult what they mean.

No there isn't. In fact many conservatives including trump have noted that the word has lost coherent meaning. Fox news thinks it's more or less synonymous with progressive. Ron desantis' campaign calls it cultural Marxism. Nikki Haley says it's boys playing girls sports. The conservative national review has yet another definition. You think it's something else. At least Joe admits it's not a definable term.

As a pejorative used among friends, fine, it's great bathroom banter. But if we want to compare business hiring practices to productivity outputs, useless.

@techsouth said
Strawman.

sarcasm

@techsouth said
You say the meaning is utterly meaningless, but those of us that lean right know what each other are talking about. We're not confused. If you choose to stay confused, that's your choice.

It seems expansive to you because you ignore part of the definition given. Particularly "It's defined by its fraudulent nature, as being distinct from legitimate social grievances." ...[text shortened]... ried very hard to help you expand your mind. Sorry I failed you. Enjoy the rest of the discussion.

We're not going to drop the actual meaning of a word to fit your Neanderthal concept of the word. Sorry, not sorry.