Originally posted by Teinosuke If it's going to work as an incentive, then I suppose it depends how generous benefits are...
It's nine euros in France and only slightly less in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. That's around 12 dollars, isn't it?
Well, I guess they do it in Europe. But personally, I don't know how a standard pizza shop or diner could run profitably if even kid busing tables or sweeping the kitchen had to be making $12/hr.
In any case, for it to make a difference for this particular person, the min wage would have had to be significant more than $12/hr.
Originally posted by sh76 Well, I guess they do it in Europe. But personally, I don't know how a standard pizza shop or diner could run profitably if even kid busing tables or sweeping the kitchen had to be making $12/hr.
In any case, for it to make a difference for this particular person, the min wage would have had to be significant more than $12/hr.
They have plenty of pizza shops and diners here. Obviously the food is more expensive, though. Also, the minimum wage is age-dependent, at least here.
Originally posted by sh76 Well, I guess they do it in Europe. But personally, I don't know how a standard pizza shop or diner could run profitably if even kid busing tables or sweeping the kitchen had to be making $12/hr.
In any case, for it to make a difference for this particular person, the min wage would have had to be significant more than $12/hr.
You and I are capitalists. Of course. But what about West Africa where people work for NO wages in hotels on the off chance they will get some tips. Market forces and all. Desperation and no choice, and all. You go for that?
Originally posted by FMF You and I are capitalists. Of course. But what about West Africa where people work for NO wages in hotels on the off chance they will get some tips. Market forces and all. Desperation and no choice, and all. You go for that?
Maybe they shouldn't have sold the strongest members of their own population, and then when that population came back with economic knowledge, they shouldn't have attacked the Americo-Liberians...
EDIT - The only money they've gotten for themselves recently was to steal Libyan oil. They need to get their act together just like the rest of us.
Originally posted by FMF You and I are capitalists. Of course. But what about West Africa where people work for NO wages in hotels on the off chance they will get some tips. Market forces and all. Desperation and no choice, and all. You go for that?
Why not if they can make a good living on tips, like the self-employed porters at railway stations in pre-war England?
Originally posted by sh76 A negative income tax bracket exists in the United States.
Look up the earned income credit.
Earned income credit was a result of welfare reform. It was to give people who didn't have a job a reason to get a job. What you describe used to be why people didn't work at all. If they worked, they'd have to accept a lower standard of living!
At least now the government is simply subsidizing a person with a job as opposed to a person who just sits at home all day.
Originally posted by FMF You and I are capitalists. Of course. But what about West Africa where people work for NO wages in hotels on the off chance they will get some tips. Market forces and all. Desperation and no choice, and all. You go for that?
Originally posted by Eladar Earned income credit was a result of welfare reform. It was to give people who didn't have a job a reason to get a job. What you describe used to be why people didn't work at all. If they worked, they'd have to accept a lower standard of living!
At least now the government is simply subsidizing a person with a job as opposed to a person who just sits at home all day.
Originally posted by Eladar If you think about it, all the EIC does is subsidize a cheaper work force. It is a form of corporate welfare, just as your example points out!
Same thing happens with all forms of public assitance.
Anything that encourages low income people to work is good.
Originally posted by sh76 The exact words from a client of mine.
He's making $12/hr. His employer would raise him to $20, but the increase in salary would be more than offset by a loss in programs eligibility.
He didn't tell this to me, but reading between the lines, his employer probably slips him a few bucks under the table.
This idea of basing government programs solely on income tests need a re-thinking.
Sounds more like the dude's company needs an audit from the IRS for not disclosing full salary figures. Although likely not a public company and no defrauding of shareholders is occuring, this private company should be playing by the rules and not be given an unlevel playing field from which to compete against its competitors who pay full salary and taxed accordingly.
Not only is this employee taking benefits he shouldn't be entitled to, his company isn't paying as much money into the tax pool that pays for those benefits!
Once again, we see business in America screwing the taxpaying public. Welcome to the new Greece!
How? How high a minimum wage? HIgh enough to discourage anyone from the extra effort to earn over $250K, and become the whipping boy of every liberal/socialist politician.
The problem is progressive taxation, along with many liberal programs providing freebies to people at specific income levels. Don't forget EITC which pays people who don't pay taxes if they're heads of households. The difference between $12 and $20 per hour amounts to $320 per week, or $16,400 annually. Food Stamps, EITC, Section 8 housing, or money under the table could easily eat up that kind of difference and explain why someone would turn down a 66% raise in pay.
Paying people not to work, or not to seek better employment has been a recipe for stagnation and increasing poverty for as long as those things have been tried.
Originally posted by sh76 Well, I guess they do it in Europe. But personally, I don't know how a standard pizza shop or diner could run profitably if even kid busing tables or sweeping the kitchen had to be making $12/hr.
In any case, for it to make a difference for this particular person, the min wage would have had to be significant more than $12/hr.
The minimum wage has historically destroyed low skill, entry level jobs, and harmed the very people it is aimed at helping.
Remember when a gas station employee cheerfully greeted you, pumped your gas, and checked your fluids? Minimum wage immediatedly wiped out that entry level job.
The last minimum wage hike eliminated many of the bagging jobs at local markets.
It is impossible to arbitrarily force employers to pay employees for more than they produce. The businessman's only alternatives are eliminate the job, or raise the prices.
"I can't afford to take a larger salary"
02 Aug '11 13:49
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