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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Aug '11 17:01 / 1 edit
    The exact words from a client of mine.

    He's making $12/hr. His employer would raise him to $20, but the increase in salary would be more than offset by a loss in programs eligibility.

    He didn't tell this to me, but reading between the lines, his employer probably slips him a few bucks under the table.

    This idea of basing government programs solely on income tests need a re-thinking.
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    01 Aug '11 17:04 / 1 edit
    Tax unused by the owner physical wealth, not income.
  3. 01 Aug '11 17:05
    Agreed. Education and health care should be single-payer, and other than income the government should leave the rest to the market. That way it's never possible to earn less because of earning more.
  4. 01 Aug '11 17:08
    Originally posted by sh76
    The exact words from a client of mine.

    He's making $12/hr. His employer would raise him to $20, but the increase in salary would be more than offset by a loss in programs eligibility.

    He didn't tell this to me, but reading between the lines, his employer probably slips him a few bucks under the table.

    This idea of basing government programs solely on income tests need a re-thinking.
    Its possible the guy miscalculated, but maybe receiving cash and still taking government benefits is a better deal than lots of people think.
  5. 01 Aug '11 18:11
    Originally posted by sh76
    The exact words from a client of mine.

    He's making $12/hr. His employer would raise him to $20, but the increase in salary would be more than offset by a loss in programs eligibility.

    He didn't tell this to me, but reading between the lines, his employer probably slips him a few bucks under the table.

    This idea of basing government programs solely on income tests need a re-thinking.
    You can base it on income test, but it needs to be gone more intelligently. Set an income level for full benefits, for every dollar over that limit, a person would lose x cents from his benefits. This way an increase in pay won't be completely offset by the loss in benefits.
  6. 01 Aug '11 18:51
    Originally posted by sh76
    The exact words from a client of mine.

    He's making $12/hr. His employer would raise him to $20, but the increase in salary would be more than offset by a loss in programs eligibility.

    He didn't tell this to me, but reading between the lines, his employer probably slips him a few bucks under the table.

    This idea of basing government programs solely on income tests need a re-thinking.
    An estimated 2 million persons living on 'benefits' in the UK are fit to work but choose not to since they are better off on the scrounge.
    This deplorable situation is the legacy of the NuLabour reign (1997-2010) together with the import of 3 million aliens from assorted, but mainly undesirable, sources.
  7. 01 Aug '11 20:51
    Originally posted by sh76
    The exact words from a client of mine.

    He's making $12/hr. His employer would raise him to $20, but the increase in salary would be more than offset by a loss in programs eligibility.

    He didn't tell this to me, but reading between the lines, his employer probably slips him a few bucks under the table.

    This idea of basing government programs solely on income tests need a re-thinking.
    I agree. I actually think that we might save money if someone was allowed to stay on welfare benefits for about 6 months after he or she finds a job.
  8. 01 Aug '11 22:07
    Originally posted by retiarius
    An estimated 2 million persons living on 'benefits' in the UK are fit to work but choose not to since they are better off on the scrounge.
    This deplorable situation is the legacy of the NuLabour reign (1997-2010) together with the import of 3 million aliens from assorted, but mainly undesirable, sources.
    put the sun and daily star down, there's a good puppy.
  9. 01 Aug '11 22:49
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    I agree. I actually think that we might save money if someone was allowed to stay on welfare benefits for about 6 months after he or she finds a job.
    We need to make sure they are better off taking a job than they are staying on welfare. A lump-sum payment obviously does that, but it seems like an awfully expensive way to go about doing that. Besides, what guarantee is there that someone doesn't get a job and then quits 6 months later after the double payment runs out ? If the problem is that staying unemployed is financially more attractive than working you have to tackle that problem permanently which you don't by giving them a bonus for signing a contract.
  10. 02 Aug '11 01:28
    Originally posted by Barts
    We need to make sure they are better off taking a job than they are staying on welfare. A lump-sum payment obviously does that, but it seems like an awfully expensive way to go about doing that. Besides, what guarantee is there that someone doesn't get a job and then quits 6 months later after the double payment runs out ? If the problem is that staying unempl ...[text shortened]... tackle that problem permanently which you don't by giving them a bonus for signing a contract.
    I'm sure we could come up with working rules, but the point is, I bet even with the occasional abuses it would actually lead to net savings for the program. Right now the recipients have to make tough economic decisions between staying on the rolls and taking work. People are willing to take more chances if they can save up for a few months to develop a cushion.
  11. 02 Aug '11 02:20
    Originally posted by trev33
    put the sun and daily star down, there's a good puppy.
    One has only to read your profile statement to see what sort of clown you are.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    02 Aug '11 02:31
    Originally posted by retiarius
    An estimated 2 million persons living on 'benefits' in the UK are fit to work but choose not to since they are better off on the scrounge.
    This deplorable situation is the legacy of the NuLabour reign (1997-2010) together with the import of 3 million aliens from assorted, but mainly undesirable, sources.
    If you can show how many of those "3 million aliens" went straight on to the dole after migrating, then you may have a point that needs to be addressed.
  13. 02 Aug '11 02:53
    Originally posted by retiarius
    One has only to read your profile statement to see what sort of clown you are.
    and what sort of a clown would that be? i'll tell you one thing, i'd rather be a clown than be a brainwashed puppet.
  14. 02 Aug '11 08:56
    Originally posted by retiarius
    An estimated 2 million persons living on 'benefits' in the UK are fit to work but choose not to since they are better off on the scrounge.
    This deplorable situation is the legacy of the NuLabour reign (1997-2010) together with the import of 3 million aliens from assorted, but mainly undesirable, sources.
    And yet Norway, with much more generous benefits, has almost zero unemployment. Perhaps you need to look somewhere else for an explanation for the problem of unemployment, gangs and chavs. Perhaps at someone named Thatcher.
  15. 02 Aug '11 09:18
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    i live in the uk...