I should have taken out more student loans

I'll make two more observations a general and specific one:

1) It seems to be the contention by some here that those who took out student loans and are now struggling to repay them did something morally blameworthy. I am at a loss to understand what. It is considered laudatory to get a good education and statistics say those with a college education generally make more income than those who don't possess a degree. It is hardly the fault of those who took out loans to get an education that the economic climate of the country has deteriorated and that it is now far more difficult to get the kind of jobs which make it easier to repay the loans they were forced to take out in order to get an education. Why some here are in such a hurry to "punish" these people is puzzling; it seems to have more to do with the psychological make up of the posters here than with any reality of moral blameworthiness of the debtors:

2) There are two provisions of this plan, one is to reduce the amount of garnishments for student loan debt and the other has to do with consolidating loans. The amount of income that may be garnished is a statutorily mandated one; creditors have no inherent right to seize X amount of your income. So if the government wants to limit said amount, what is the objection? Certainly there isn't one from a standpoint of inherent right. The same applies to the government allowing the consolidation of separate loans with the result that debtors pay slightly less interest. Given the weakness of the economy, the government is reasonably seeking to enhance the purchasing power of consumers and these steps will do so to a modest extent. The shrieking in this thread in response to such minor adjustments is amazing and just goes to show what ideological fanatics some people here are.

Originally posted by no1marauder
How exactly is it costing taxpayers money?

Aren't you being a bit of a hypocrite anyway? You certainly don't mind being subsidized by having your mortgage interest payments being deductible. Couldn't renters scream the same sentences you are?

I bought the house in part because I relied on the mortgage interest deduction. I never would have paid the price I did for the house had the mortgage interest deduction not existed. That's totally different from asking for more lenient treatment after the fact.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'll make two more observations a general and specific one:

1) It seems to be the contention by some here that those who took out student loans and are now struggling to repay them did something morally blameworthy. I am at a loss to understand what. It is considered laudatory to get a good education and statistics say those with a colle ...[text shortened]... djustments is amazing and just goes to show what ideological fanatics some people here are.

This isn't about moral blameworthiness. Of course it's not morally blameworthy to take out a student loan. But it's also moral to require that people live up to the agreements they sign. Making them live up to the terms of the agreements that they signed is hardly a punishment.

Originally posted by sh76
I bought the house in part because I relied on the mortgage interest deduction. I never would have paid the price I did for the house had the mortgage interest deduction not existed. That's totally different from asking for more lenient treatment after the fact.

People get loan modifications based on changed circumstances every single day. How is this different? If you suffered a sudden loss of income, would you feel that you should be precluded from asking your mortgage holder for more "lenient" treatment because "a deal's a deal"?

Originally posted by sh76
The point is, if the taxpayers are going to be subsidizing people, why shouldn't I get subsidized a little bit too? I don't desperately need the subsidy, but I could use it. When I read about all these bailout programs for underwater home buyers and people in debt, it makes me feel like a bit of a sucker for depriving myself in order to avoid going into that kind of debt.

You talk like these people are somehow getting off scot free. They aren't.

Their debt isn't being erased and even the "bailout" programs for underwater home buyers aren't getting them clear of their mortgage either. It's making it so that they actually can pay instead of walking away from their house.

Why should the oil companies get a taxpayer funded subsidy when they don't need it and neither you nor I get one?

Originally posted by no1marauder
People get loan modifications based on changed circumstances every single day. How is this different? If you suffered a sudden loss of income, would you feel that you should be precluded from asking your mortgage holder for more "lenient" treatment because "a deal's a deal"?

If a private individual makes a deal with a private company, that's none of my business. I don't like the government mandating or subsidizing that lenient treatment.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
You talk like these people are somehow getting off scot free. They aren't.

Their debt isn't being erased and even the "bailout" programs for underwater home buyers aren't getting them clear of their mortgage either. It's making it so that they actually can pay instead of walking away from their house.

Why should the oil companies get a taxpayer funded subsidy when they don't need it and neither you nor I get one?

The oil companies should not get subsidies. I agree with that. Nor should the ethanol corn growers for that matter, or most other companies.

Originally posted by finnegan
You assume that debt is a consequence of moral failure. It probably is, but on whose part? We have lived in a world where people gained immense wealth by persuading us to borrow, and where wages could be allowed to slide because people could borrow to survive.

People make the best decisions they can and the assumptions they make can easily prove over op ...[text shortened]... he deregulated financial sector has been a disaster and often in the hands of virtual criminals.

This is an interesting, but lengthy, read.

http://libcom.org/library/britain-european-exchange-rate-mechanism

It covers the thoughts of a government and its advisors who are under duress (if that ever is never the case).

It conveys support, and my agreed opinion, of your comment that the average borrower is not totally subject to their own failures, on the contrary.

I bought my first house in the UK in the south, in 1989 when interest rates were low, and I was starting out on the tracks of considering long term investment in the UK along with long term employment. Paying my own way, as such.

By 1991 my mortgage interest repayment rates had soared from 3% to 15% and we couldn't, literally, afford to make the mortgage payments in full. By early 1992, despite all efforts and long term requests for plans, Halifax Building Society repossessed our home, along with half a million other homes. Half a million people were not full of moral failure, surely? 😉

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
By 1991 my mortgage interest repayment rates had soared from 3% to 15% and we couldn't, literally, afford to make the mortgage payments in full. By early 1992, despite all efforts and long term requests for plans, Halifax Building Society repossessed our home, along with half a million other homes. Half a million people were not full of moral failure, surely?

Ayn Rand ought to have reached out from her grave and boxed you round the ears with one of her dreary tomes of artless sophomoric prose. You're either a lion or a leech, mikelom. And it's the Halifax Building Society that's the lion, methinks.

Originally posted by FMF
Ayn Rand ought to have reached out from her grave and boxed you round the ears with one of her dreary tomes of artless sophomoric prose. You're either a lion or a leech, mikelom. And it's the Halifax Building Society that's the lion, methinks.

Oh! So earning little, trying to get onto the property ladder at a very young age, paying a necessary 50% of income to a Building Society, then with interest rate escalation being required to pay over 100% of my income made me a leech?

I care less of the past, as I more than made it. I was simply giving an example; and many people never recovered from such a scenario.

I'm a real leach FMF?

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
I'm a real leech FMF?

Worse. If you don't like Rand's books you're almost certainly a collectivist, cf: Mugabe, Karl Brandt, no1marauder or Kim Il-sung. The Halifax Building Society represents mankind in it's true, glorious, unfettered and unfetterable house repossessing state.

Originally posted by FMF
Worse. If you don't like Rand's books you're almost certainly a collectivist, cf: Mugabe, Karl Brandt, no1marauder or Kim Il-sung. The Halifax Building Society represents mankind in it's true, glorious, unfettered and unfetterable house repossessing state.

Who said I don't like books? 😲

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
Who said I don't like books? 😲

-m.

The Randian view would surely be that those who produce books (i.e. wealth) are the lions, while those who just depend on reading the words that others have written, are the leeches. Halifax Building Society obviously had your card marked and took their house back from you when your true nature revealed itself.

Originally posted by FMF
The Randian view would surely be that those who produce books (i.e. wealth) are the lions, while those who just depend on reading the words that others have written, are the leeches. Halifax Building Society obviously had your card marked and took their house back from you when your true nature revealed itself.

I'm glad I created the story of even buying in the UK. I would be inflamed with such pityless remarks as you are truly capable of if it were true.

You've sure got a pig-head on today, and I'm glad I never invested in your country, but only took from it! 😛

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
I'm glad I never invested in your country, but only took from it!

Now that's the lion in you talking. There's nothing stopping you now from setting up a Halifax Building Society of your own. I gather that the town of Halifax is full of people who do not deserve their houses. And I'd drop the word "Society" too. There's no such thing.