08 Mar 23
The lead:
"Intelligence and diplomatic officials in the United States and Europe suspect that pro-Ukraine saboteurs may be responsible for explosions in September that severely damaged the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, an attack that could erode support for Ukraine among the Western nations that have come to its defense against Russia."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/intelligence-officials-suspect-ukraine-partisans-behind-nord-stream-bombings-rattling-kyiv-s-allies/ar-AA18lbOV?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=3987fdbd2e284a8680686643fc25f31c&ei=28
As an aside, it mentions:
"Western officials say Ukrainian actors are responsible for a car explosion in August that killed the daughter of Alexander Dugin, a Russian nationalist and ideological ally of President Vladimir Putin. Some officials said that Dugin was the intended target and that Kyiv was admonished over the attack by its Western allies."
Way back last Summer, I mentioned this possibility and received the usual mindless attacks calling me "pro-Russia".
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/was-moscow-car-bomb-staged.194460/page-6
08 Mar 23
@no1marauder saidThat sounds about right. Biden is a pro-Ukraine saboteur.
The lead:
"Intelligence and diplomatic officials in the United States and Europe suspect that pro-Ukraine saboteurs may be responsible for explosions in September that severely damaged the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, an attack that could erode support for Ukraine among the Western nations that have come to its defense against Russia."
https://www.msn.com/en-u ...[text shortened]... e "pro-Russia".
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/was-moscow-car-bomb-staged.194460/page-6
Biden openly saying he was going to do it isn't enough to convince you?
After falsely blaming Russia for it you can believe them now? LOL!
You are gullible.
08 Mar 23
1 edit
@metal-brain saidI never blamed Russia for it, you idiot. The most logical "culprits" were always the Ukrainians.
That sounds about right. Biden is a pro-Ukraine saboteur.
Biden openly saying he was going to do it isn't enough to convince you?
After falsely blaming Russia for it you can believe them now? LOL!
You are gullible.
And no, Biden never said he was going to sabotage Nord Stream and I still don't think we did.
08 Mar 23
@no1marauder saidI’ve given a perfectly logical explanation as to why the Russians would want to raise the spectre of insecurity in the passage of gas through this area by sabotaging a pipeline that they were not using and was only symbolically damaged and fixed within weeks.
I never blamed Russia for it, you idiot. The most logical "culprits" were always the Ukrainians.
And no, Biden never said he was going to sabotage Nord Stream and I still don't think we did.
If the war has taught us one thing it’s that Ukrainian forces do a good job and if they did I’m amazed that it was fixed within weeks.
By all means spout some more pro Russian anti Ukrainian propaganda hearsay. But the illogical nature of Ukraines motives still needs explaining.
08 Mar 23
@no1marauder said“"Western officials say Ukrainian actors are responsible for a car explosion in August that killed the daughter of Alexander Dugin, a Russian nationalist and ideological ally of President Vladimir Putin. Some officials said that Dugin was the intended target and that Kyiv was admonished over the attack by its Western allies."
The lead:
"Intelligence and diplomatic officials in the United States and Europe suspect that pro-Ukraine saboteurs may be responsible for explosions in September that severely damaged the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, an attack that could erode support for Ukraine among the Western nations that have come to its defense against Russia."
https://www.msn.com/en-u ...[text shortened]... e "pro-Russia".
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/was-moscow-car-bomb-staged.194460/page-6
”
Of course they are offering proof of this?
It’s obviously an option given this guys pro war mongering campaign against Ukraine along with his daughter he was instrumental in garnering public support for the invasion and cold blooded murder of thousands of Ukrainian civilians. Even if it’s proven why are you looking for outrage when every pro war extremist in Putin’s circle is a legitimate target for Ukrainian forces.🤷🏻♂️
Again some actual proof of either case would be nice.
Stop pretending you’re not pro Russian No1 it’s disgustingly dishonest.
08 Mar 23
1 edit
@kevcvs57 saidWhy do you keep repeating the misinformation the pipeline was "fixed within weeks"? It still hasn't been and likely never will be. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-no-decision-yet-repair-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-12-15/
I’ve given a perfectly logical explanation as to why the Russians would want to raise the spectre of insecurity in the passage of gas through this area by sabotaging a pipeline that they were not using and was only symbolically damaged and fixed within weeks.
If the war has taught us one thing it’s that Ukrainian forces do a good job and if they did I’m amazed that it was f ...[text shortened]... i Ukrainian propaganda hearsay. But the illogical nature of Ukraines motives still needs explaining.
Sure, it's "illogical" for the Ukraine to strike at a Russian economic asset but "logical" for the Russians to do so. That's the reasoning of an idiot.
08 Mar 23
2 edits
@kevcvs57 saidNo, civilians are not legitimate targets for Russian or Ukranian military forces regardless of their political views. It's a war crime either way.
“"Western officials say Ukrainian actors are responsible for a car explosion in August that killed the daughter of Alexander Dugin, a Russian nationalist and ideological ally of President Vladimir Putin. Some officials said that Dugin was the intended target and that Kyiv was admonished over the attack by its Western allies."
”
Of course they are offering proof of this?
...[text shortened]... either case would be nice.
Stop pretending you’re not pro Russian No1 it’s disgustingly dishonest.
You've consistently lied about my views and seem to have no shame in doing so. But it seems that you and the others who claimed that the Dugin assassination must have been a false flag have some egg on your faces if you ever have the honesty to admit error (I see no reason to believe you do, however).
08 Mar 23
@no1marauder saidwow…wapo, the democrat state media
The lead:
"Intelligence and diplomatic officials in the United States and Europe suspect that pro-Ukraine saboteurs may be responsible for explosions in September that severely damaged the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, an attack that could erode support for Ukraine among the Western nations that have come to its defense against Russia."
https://www.msn.com/en-u ...[text shortened]... e "pro-Russia".
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/was-moscow-car-bomb-staged.194460/page-6
08 Mar 23
2 edits
@no1marauder saidYou were not called "pro-Russia" for suggesting Ukrainians were responsible the assassination. You were called that for downplaying the Russian invasion and ignoring legitimate sources showing Putin attacked his own citizens.
"Western officials say Ukrainian actors are responsible for a car explosion in August that killed the daughter of Alexander Dugin, a Russian nationalist and ideological ally of President Vladimir Putin. Some officials said that Dugin was the intended target and that Kyiv was admonished over the attack by its Western allies."
Way back last Summer, I mentioned this possi ...[text shortened]... e "pro-Russia".
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/was-moscow-car-bomb-staged.194460/page-6
And for your hordes of pro-Russia arguments over the entirety of last year.
08 Mar 23
2 edits
@shavixmir saidThat is the most logical conclusion. But just as a review:
Well, it didn’t make sense that Russia would be responsible for that anyway.
1) Russia fabricated wo assignation claims last year
2) One of those fabricated claims was an alleged car-bombing, just like the one in the OP.
3) Putin is not only a well-known murderer but was accused of killing scores of his own people just to fuel propaganda
4) The bombing itself was suspicious; the bomb could've easily been detonated to kill Putin's ally Dugin...but for some reason only detonated after he, for some odd reason, switched cars with his daughter, killing the less important figure instead of him.
5) Just like the other fabricated "assassinations" from that year, Putin used this as propaganda against the Ukrainian government
Sources for all these were provided in the thread link in the OP. I merely raised a possibility based on Russia's past actions, I never claimed this actually happened. I even said as much in the thread No1 brought up.
08 Mar 23
@vivify saidIt remains a lie; I have labeled the invasion a "Crime Against Peace".
You were not called "pro-Russia" for suggesting Ukrainians were responsible the assassination. You were called that for downplaying the Russian invasion and ignoring legitimate sources showing Putin attacked his own citizens.
And for your hordes of pro-Russia arguments over the entirety of last year.
08 Mar 23
@no1marauder saidJust like when Duchess "criticized" China's treatment of Muslims while attacking any report of China mistreating Muslims. So too with you and the invasion.
It remains a lie; I have labeled the invasion a "Crime Against Peace".
08 Mar 23
@no1marauder saidI explained in full the logic behind a possible rationale for Russia sabotaging its own pipeline I’m not going over it again but basically it creates an air of insecurity in terms of Norway’s ability to supply Europe with gas through the area.
Why do you keep repeating the misinformation the pipeline was "fixed within weeks"? It still hasn't been and likely never will be. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-no-decision-yet-repair-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-12-15/
Sure, it's "illogical" for the Ukraine to strike at a Russian economic asset but "logical" for the Russians to do so. That's the reasoning of an idiot.
You’ve yet to explain the logic of Ukraine risking serious blowback by sabotaging an unused Russian pipeline.
As for pipeline not being fixed it just strengthens the argument that Russia has no practical use for a pipeline that sanctions have rendered irrelevant.
I didn’t snatch the timeline of weeks out if the either, it seemed to be the consensus when it happened. I guess if Russia never bothers to fix it you’ll claim that it was so badly damaged that it was unfixable.
I have never claimed to know the facts behind either event but it’s reasonable to theorise based on logic but unlike you I do not claim to know anything as a fact.
08 Mar 23
@no1marauder saidYou are on the left wing of the democrat party, are you claiming that wing is not pro Russian in so far as it’s anti nato and thinks Ukraine could do worse than being subsumed into Russia
It remains a lie; I have labeled the invasion a "Crime Against Peace".
I make no claims of neutrality in this issue I am avidly pro Ukrainian and anti Putin regime and its expansionist policies.