Is Greece a microcosm of more to come?

yeah, just compare Governor George Bush to Senator Barack Obama or Senator Al Gore.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
Let's not give homage to the Mighty Christie quite yet. He's got a lot on his plate and he faces many challenges.

But there is one reason why I generally have a LOT more respect for governors than other politicians (and especially talk show hosts).

Governors can't just blather on about terrible the other party is. They can't even yak incessantly ab ...[text shortened]... He can't just sit around sucking lemons and then declare victory in the mid-term election.

I agree that Governors have a tougher job than say, a Senator. But in fact a Governor CAN choose to just coast along without tackling the tough decisions. How do you think NJ got so screwed up in the first place? Christie could have chosen to move to the left and cut deals, and tried not to be too controversial in deep blue NJ, where the public employee unions are strong, and the legislature is against him. But he didn't. He chose to lead. So at least give him credit for having the courage to spoon out the medicine.

I'm not sure what he's done that could be characterized as "sitting around sucking lemons." Was it sitting around sucking lemons when he publicly urged voters to reject school budgets in districts where teachers refused to take a pay freeze and cough up 1.5% of their salary to cover their own excellent health insurance? What about holding a public signing ceremony to cut public employee pensions? Or shaking up the the NJ Supreme Court by refusing to grant tenure to the first 5 of NJSC judges he will have a chance to replace in his term? How about that speech he gave which basically declared war on special interest groups and signaled his intent to balance NJ's budget in one year? Is any of that sitting around and sucking lemons?

But let's not pay homage unless he overcomes all the problems left to him by Corzine in a deep blue state full of political enemies. Anything less is just sitting around sucking lemons. Right?

Originally posted by whodey
As we see riots in the streets of Greece explode after the government has vowed to slash spending and increase taxes so as not to become insolvent, can we expect to see more of this in the future as we see other governments headed in the same direction? In short, is this the beginning of the end for "democracies" around the world?

No. If greeks would just pay their frickin taxes, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I read a crazy stat that said something like less than 10,000 greeks stated they earned more than 100,000 bux/year on their income tax forms.

Jebus, pay your taxes you bunch of crooks!

Originally posted by uzless
No. If greeks would just pay their frickin taxes, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I read a crazy stat that said something like less than 10,000 greeks stated they earned more than 100,000 bux/year on their income tax forms.

Jebus, pay your taxes you bunch of crooks!

😵

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Greece_s-crisis-may-become-our-crisis-92978884.html


Irwin Stelzer: Greece's crisis may become our crisis
By: Irwin M. Stelzer
Examiner Columnist
May 7, 2010

Don't look now, but we just loaned almost $7 billion to Greece. That's our share of the International Monetary Fund bailout of that country.

Don't worry; We can always borrow the money from China, or raise taxes in the likely event that Greece proves unable to repay the IMF and the eurozone countries that are contributing to enabling Greece to refinance the loans coming due this month and the rest of this year, and next.

...

t is hard to tell whether the bailout of Greece is farce or tragedy.

Farce, because some of the workers taking to the streets to protest the cutbacks in government spending don't want their retirement ages extended from the current level of 50 years, and the wealthy want to continue evading the tax collector. The New York Times reports that residents of a wealthy Athens suburb admitted to the taxman that they own 324 swimming pools, while a satellite survey of the neighborhood shows 16,974 such privately owned facilities in which the rich can escape the heat of a Greek summer.

...

i think the NY Times article (or whatever the original source was) also mentioned how few doctors confess to anywhere near what they actually make, but i can't find the article now.

Originally posted by whodey
As we see riots in the streets of Greece explode after the government has vowed to slash spending and increase taxes so as not to become insolvent, can we expect to see more of this in the future as we see other governments headed in the same direction? In short, is this the beginning of the end for "democracies" around the world?

Yes...and no. Yes this is a wake up call for democracies to live within there fiscal means, and no...this is not the end for democracies around the world.

Originally posted by uzless
No. If greeks would just pay their frickin taxes, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I read a crazy stat that said something like less than 10,000 greeks stated they earned more than 100,000 bux/year on their income tax forms.

Jebus, pay your taxes you bunch of crooks!

A pre-requisite for any plan to give Greece any of our hard earned cash should be that they allow an outside audit of taxes collected and that any taxes outstanding are vigourously pursued.

hahaha, think that will happen?

Originally posted by zeeblebot
hahaha, think that will happen?

Not a chance..the politicians are probably the worst offenders. But it is extremely galling. These people aren't victims of the global economic situation, they're a nation of people who have come to accept tax evasion as the norm, yet they have some of the most generous social benefits in Europe. You can't have it both ways. Why should the rest of us bankroll Greek pensions that are better than ours. No-one seems to be asking for assurances that they will change their habits in the future.

maybe it's all just another way to fleece the taxpayer. how much of the bailout is going to make its way to the masses?

trickledown economics in the year 2010!

Originally posted by whodey
As we see riots in the streets of Greece explode after the government has vowed to slash spending and increase taxes so as not to become insolvent, can we expect to see more of this in the future as we see other governments headed in the same direction? In short, is this the beginning of the end for "democracies" around the world?

1Trillion Euro's says NO!

Originally posted by zeeblebot
maybe it's all just another way to fleece the taxpayer. how much of the bailout is going to make its way to the masses?

trickledown economics in the year 2010!

Not much in the pockets of the public. We give vast sums to the banks, they reluctantly lend minute amounts to customers.The interest rates being what they are, the return to them is far less than they can get by gambling the money on the markets and continuing to pay themselves obscene annual bonuses...don't get me started !!!!

willingly enabled by their vast armies of legislators, lobbyists, presidents and ministers ...

Originally posted by uzless
No. If greeks would just pay their frickin taxes, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I read a crazy stat that said something like less than 10,000 greeks stated they earned more than 100,000 bux/year on their income tax forms.

Jebus, pay your taxes you bunch of crooks!

So is the tax rate there too high and/or is the enforcement on these taxes too low?

It would appear to me that the Greeks contracted the illness that Americans do which is, give me all your "free" goodiess but don't make me pay higher taxs, syndrome. Then again, maybe Americans got the illness from them just like they adopted their philosophy of democracy.

At any rate, it would be interesting if the Greeks started cracking down on all these tax offenders. Would the sentiment of the populace turn on the entitlement state if they did I wonder? Would they begin to prefer slashing entitlements in favor of lower taxes?

Of course, by saying these things I'm taking your word for the problem of tax dodgers in Greece. Do you have any artilces in regard to this problem?

Originally posted by kmax87
1Trillion Euro's says NO!

I don't think throwing money around is the key here. What needs to be done is prevent these problems from occuring, wouldn't you say? In other words, lets say $1 trillion fixes all our problems. What then? Will it happen again if the underlying problems are not "fixed"?