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Debates Forum

  1. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    14 Jul '18 09:491 edit
    "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."
    Luke 23:34 KJV

    OK, OK,...I'm not so religious; but I do have a sincere and private faith.

    And one faith in me springs eternal: My belief that there's plenty of room in the USA for conservative and liberal co-existence. It has been proven so for the last 242 years.

    Our system is the greatest on the planet.
    It's not perfect. But it's good. Real good!

    That's why immigrants have been scaling the fences and bribing "Lottery Officials" for over 100 years. Let's be proud of our rights and freedoms. We can agree to disagree respectfully. We can dissent.

    I doubt that many of the anti-American posters in these Forums can do similarly in their own countries. (Lest they wind up dead on a slab or in court behind a cage like the Russian female band "Pussy Riot".)

    Let's not do the trolls a favor. We shouldn't enable the success of those whose sole purpose is to enable our own self-destruction.

    Let's not do the likes of Duchess64's, bidding anymore: Because that is exactly what Putin wants.

    The sad spectacle of this epoch will pass. But we must not allow our core values to pass with it.
  2. Germany
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    14 Jul '18 09:53
    Originally posted by @wolfe63

    Our system is the greatest on the planet.
    By what measure?
  3. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    14 Jul '18 10:051 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    By what measure?
    Russia or Germany in 1935.
    Cambodia or South Africa in 1975.
    Argentina or China in 1989.

    Please feel free to make a selection.
  4. SubscriberWajoma
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    14 Jul '18 10:061 edit
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."
    Luke 23:34 KJV

    OK, OK,...I'm not so religious; but I do have a sincere and private faith.

    And one faith in me springs eternal: My belief that there's plenty of room in the USA for conservative and liberal co-existence. It has been proven so for the last 242 years.

    Our system is the greatest on ...[text shortened]... he sad spectacle of this epoch will pass. But we must not allow our core values to pass with it.
    Enjoyed my time (5 years) in the US, but the H2 visa system was diabolical and ultimately led to a different direction. There are things I miss out on in Aus being a NZ citizen but the immigration policy between these two countries is the model to work towards. Back in the day you didn't even need a passport.
  5. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    14 Jul '18 10:12
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Enjoyed my time in the US, but the H2 visa system was diabolical and ultimately led to a different direction. There are things I miss out on in Aus being a NZ citizen but the immigration policy between these two countries is the model to work towards. Back in the day you didn't even need a passport.
    I'm not familiar with those specific policies. But, I do recognize that our complex system leaves much to repair.
    Speaking politically, it's clear, that at some point, our American immigration "can" will be kicked too far down the road...and likely, into a "wall". 😉
  6. Germany
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    14 Jul '18 10:24
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    Russia or Germany in 1935.
    Cambodia or South Africa in 1975.
    Argentina or China in 1989.

    Please feel free to make a selection.
    I don't understand your response. For the qualifier "greatest system" to have any meaning, it must be so by some quantitative measure. What is the measure?
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    14 Jul '18 10:331 edit
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."
    Luke 23:34 KJV

    OK, OK,...I'm not so religious; but I do have a sincere and private faith.

    And one faith in me springs eternal: My belief that there's plenty of room in the USA for conservative and liberal co-existence. It has been proven so for the last 242 years.

    Our system is the greatest on ...[text shortened]... he sad spectacle of this epoch will pass. But we must not allow our core values to pass with it.
    My belief that there's plenty of room in the USA for conservative and liberal co-existence. It has been proven so for the last 242 years.

    With a brief interlude called the civil war.

    Okay, snide jokes aside.

    American politics is very partisan at the moment. I have to say, "leftists" (America has very few real leftists) are more guilty of playing the "you're an idiot" game and relentlessly bashing those with different views because it's popular. If we look at these forums, for example, "leftists" "like" each other's posts and "dislike" other people's. Nobody else does that because they don't subscribe to the mob mentality that comes with collectivism. Well, it won't fix your divided society. It's easy to burn bridges and not so easy to build them. People need to make an effort to understand why people think the way they do and try to find some common ground.
  8. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    14 Jul '18 10:521 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    I don't understand your response. For the qualifier "greatest system" to have any meaning, it must be so by some quantitative measure. What is the measure?
    Oh, I see...you're literally fixated on the "numbers". You want the raw data.
    Sincere apologies: As I'm unable to quantify my visionary views or patriotic beliefs for you.
    Do you have a system in mind which can quantify such things?

    I guess the best analogy I can offer is how much I love my hometown sports team. They were great a few years ago, they suck right now...but I have faith that they'll be great once again, in future. But they're still the greatest team on earth to me.

    Please give me a derivative equation or formula if it is possible. I'm always willing to learn new skills.

    🙂
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    14 Jul '18 10:523 edits
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    [b]My belief that there's plenty of room in the USA for conservative and liberal co-existence. It has been proven so for the last 242 years.

    With a brief interlude called the civil war.

    Okay, snide jokes aside.

    American politics is very partisan at the moment. I have to say, "leftists" (America has very few real leftists) are more guilty of ...[text shortened]... ake an effort to understand why people think the way they do and try to find some common ground.[/b]
    It sometimes helps to have a common recognized enemy or inanimate threat to our existence “as a people.” “Chessplayers everywhere” is a herd of cats and what is the threat?
  10. Germany
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    14 Jul '18 11:03
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    Oh, I see...you're literally fixated on the "numbers". You want the raw data.
    Sincere apologies: As I'm unable to quantify my visionary views or patriotic beliefs for you.
    Do you have a system in mind which can quantify such things?

    I guess the best analogy I can offer is how much I love my hometown sports team. They were great a few years ago, they s ...[text shortened]... erivative equation or formula if it is possible. I'm always willing to learn new skills.

    🙂
    Don't make quantitative claims if you don't want to make quantitative claims.

    What would you say makes the American system "great" albeit not necessarily the "greatest"?
  11. SubscriberWajoma
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    14 Jul '18 11:05
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Don't make quantitative claims if you don't want to make quantitative claims.

    What would you say makes the American system "great" albeit not necessarily the "greatest"?
    Says the guy having trouble quantifying the difference between deficit spending campaign promises of Trump versus Clinton.
  12. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    14 Jul '18 11:09
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Don't make quantitative claims if you don't want to make quantitative claims.

    What would you say makes the American system "great" albeit not necessarily the "greatest"?
    I'm not sure...but I don't think you agree with me that America is the greatest nation on earth.

    Do you have an alternative opinion?
    Or are you more into arguing micro-semantics as a mode of distraction?
  13. Germany
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    14 Jul '18 11:14
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    I'm not sure...but I don't think you agree with me that America is the greatest nation on earth.

    Do you have an alternative opinion?
    Or are you more into arguing micro-semantics as a mode of distraction?
    In my opinion, saying that a nation state is "great" or even "the greatest" is a vapid, nationalist claim. That's why I asked you to clarify it, but you appear to agree with this assessment.

    A more meaningful statement might refer to whether the inhabitants of that territory are well off in a broad sense; the typical American is better off than the typical world citizen, but not better off than in certain other regions of the world.
  14. Germany
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    14 Jul '18 11:15
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Says the guy having trouble quantifying the difference between deficit spending campaign promises of Trump versus Clinton.
    Says the guy proposing to ban hospitals.
  15. SubscriberWajoma
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    14 Jul '18 11:18
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Says the guy proposing to ban hospitals.
    Naturally I can quote you directly, and will do so if challenged.

    Can you
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