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  1. 03 Sep '14 23:27
    A famous Zionist slogan was that Palestine was 'a land without people
    for a people without land' (primarily European Jews).

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israels-land-for-lives-is-theft-pure-and-simple-9705378.html

    "Israel's 'land for lives' is theft. Pure and simple.
    World view: Israel takes land, Palestine loses land: that's the way it works."
    --Robert Fisk (2 September 2014)

    In the West Bank, the Palestinians don't need a Hamas spokesman to tell
    them what they can readily observe with their own eyes: the expanding
    Jewish settlements, always bringing with them the vital 'security concerns'
    that demand the presence of the IDF to control Palestinian lives.

    According to the latest poll (26-30 August 2014) from the Palestine Centre
    for Policy and Survey Research, most Palestinians have given up hope that
    negotiations with Israel can lead to any kind of tolerable peace for them.
    81% of Palestinians expressed worry that they may be seriously injured
    (physically) by IDF soldiers (or armed Jewish settlers) in their daily lives.
  2. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    04 Sep '14 00:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    A famous Zionist slogan was that Palestine was 'a land without people
    for a people without land' (primarily European Jews).

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israels-land-for-lives-is-theft-pure-and-simple-9705378.html

    "Israel's 'land for lives' is theft. Pure and simple.
    World view: Israel takes land, Palestine loses land: that's the way ...[text shortened]... seriously injured
    (physically) by IDF soldiers (or armed Jewish settlers) in their daily lives.
    There was never any Palestinian land; so the Zionist slogan was correct.
  3. 04 Sep '14 01:41
    I'd want to have the land too if it was being used to attack me.
  4. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    04 Sep '14 08:14
    Yeshayahu Leibowitz participated in the Zionist religious and political movements and served in the 1948 war in the Jerusalem area. He was shocked by an Isreali operation in Qibya in 1953, when in retaliation for the killing of a mother and two children by Palestinians, and despite Jordanian willingness to punish the culprits, the Israeli army attacked the village from which they believed the perpetrators came and massacred any villagers they found, sixty people including women and children. He wrote: "We have to ask ourselves where this youth of ours emerged from - young people who had no mental inhibition about committing this atrocity? What inner motivation for such acts could have been at work here? This youth was not a mob but the product of Zionist, humanist and social education." His answer was that the state and Zionism had become more sacred than Jewish and humanist values. "If the security of the people and the homeland are sacrosanct, and if the sword is Zur Israel [one of God's names in Judaism], then Qibya is possible and feasible." [p.80 The Idea of Israel, Ilan Pappe]
  5. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    04 Sep '14 08:28
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    There was never any Palestinian land; so the Zionist slogan was correct.
    So what land were the Palestinians living on?
    Or where they floating above ground somewhere?
  6. 04 Sep '14 12:12
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    A famous Zionist slogan was that Palestine was 'a land without people
    for a people without land' (primarily European Jews).

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israels-land-for-lives-is-theft-pure-and-simple-9705378.html

    "Israel's 'land for lives' is theft. Pure and simple.
    World view: Israel takes land, Palestine loses land: that's the way ...[text shortened]... seriously injured
    (physically) by IDF soldiers (or armed Jewish settlers) in their daily lives.
    Since 1948, exactly how much "expansion" has taken place?
  7. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    04 Sep '14 12:46
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Since 1948, exactly how much "expansion" has taken place?
    Israeli settlements[1] are Israeli civilian communities[i] built on lands occupied by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War. Such settlements currently exist in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and in the Golan Heights. Settlements previously existed in the Sinai and Gaza Strip until Israel evacuated the Sinai settlements following the 1979 Israel-Egypt peace agreement and from the Gaza Strip in 2005 under Israel's unilateral disengagement plan. Israel dismantled 18 settlements in the Sinai Peninsula in 1982, and all 21 in the Gaza Strip and 4 in the West Bank in 2005,[2] but continues to both expand its settlements and settle new areas in the West Bank,[3][4][5][6][7] despite being condemned by 158 out of 166 nations in one vote, and 160 nations out of 171 nations in a different vote, in the UN.

    While all settlements in the West Bank were advised by the International Court of Justice to be unlawful in 2004,[1] the construction of the West Bank Barrier would keep a significant number of settlements behind a wall. The largest settlements left beyond the barrier would include Kiryat Arba (population 7,593 in 2012), Kokhav Ya'akov (6,476), Beit El (5,897), Geva Binyamin (4,674), Eli, Mateh Binyamin (3,521), Ofra (3,489), Talmon (3,202), Shilo, Mateh Binyamin (2,706), Tekoa, Gush Etzion (2,518), and Mitzpe Yeriho (2,115). The total number of settlers east of the barrier lines in 2012 was at least 67,702, plus 11,528 in the Jordan Valley. By comparison, the number of Gaza Strip settlers in 2005 who refused to move voluntarily and be compensated, and that were forcibly evicted during the Israeli disengagement from Gaza was around 9,000.[2] The total population of all settlements in the West Bank was 344,391 in 2012, excluding East Jerusalem.
    Jerusalem: After 1967
    Israel captured the whole of Jerusalem in 1967 and extended the city's municipal boundaries, putting both East and West Jerusalem under its sovereignty and civil law. In 1980 Israel passed a law making its annexation of East Jerusalem explicit. The city's status remains disputed, with Israel's occupation of East Jerusalem considered illegal under international law. Israel is determined that Jerusalem be its undivided capital, while Palestinians are seeking to establish their capital in East Jerusalem.
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    04 Sep '14 12:48
    And as at 1 September 2014 this report:
    Israel on Sunday confiscated nearly 1,000 acres of privately owned Palestinian land near an Israeli settlement south of Bethlehem in the West Bank — a move described by Israeli rights group Peace Now as “unprecedented in its scope since the 1980s."

    Settlements built on Palestinian land occupied by Israel, including East Jerusalem, are deemed illegal by the United Nations. Israel’s refusal to halt their construction and expansion has at times arrested the peace process and increased resentment and distrust among Palestinians.

    In a statement published on its website, Peace Now condemned the latest land confiscation and said it further damaged the chance of achieving a lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians based on a two-state solution.

    The group also said the move ran contrary to the “new diplomatic horizon” that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke of earlier this month, even as Israel and Hamas exchanged blows in a deadly battle that devastated the Gaza Strip.

    “Peace Now views this declaration as proof that Prime Minister Netanyahu does not aspire for a new ‘Diplomatic Horizon’ but rather, he continues to put obstacles to the two state vision and promote a one state solution,” the group said.

    Later on Sunday, a U.S. State Department official characterized the land confiscation as "counterproductive” and urged Israel to “reverse” its decision.

    British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond echoed that call on Monday, saying the move had the potential to reignite violence between the two parties.

    "This is a particularly ill-judged decision that comes at a time when the priority must be to build on the cease-fire in Gaza. It will do serious damage to Israel's standing in the international community," Hammond said.

    Israel-Gaza flashpoint
    Click for news on Israel's latest offensive in Gaza
    Sunday's confiscation of Palestinian territory is the latest and largest in a series of land grabs near the Israeli settlement of Gvaot, said Peace Now. Some 243 acres in the area were declared state land last April.

    Palestinian landowners in the villages of Surif, Husan, Al-Jabaa, and the city of Bethlehem were given 45 days to submit formal objections to the announced confiscation in Israeli courts, Palestinian news website Maan reported. If the landowners do not contest the order, the additional territories seized will also be declared Israeli state-owned land.

    In the past, Palestinians have complained that their objections were largely ignored or denied by Israeli authorities that seek to create facts on the ground to bolster claims on Palestinian territories in a future peace settlement.

    "The intention of appropriating the land is to create territorial continuity between the Green Line and settlements of Beitar Illit, Kfar Etzion, and Gvaot," Haaretz reported. "The announcement is the latest in a series of plans designed to attach the Etzion settlement bloc to Jerusalem and its environs."

    The Green Line refers to the internationally recognized border between Israel and the West Bank, territory Israel captured and occupied in 1967. Critics of Israeli land confiscations say they reveal that the current Israeli government is not interested in returning territory to Palestinians in order to realize a two-state solution as the parties envisioned it in 1993.

    In July, Netanyahu said in a press conference that he would never accept Palestinian sovereignty in the West Bank for security reasons.

    “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: There cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the river Jordan,” he said.

    Nabil Abu Rudeineh, spokesman for Abbas, said Sunday that the latest land grab would “lead to more instability” and “inflame the situation after the war in Gaza,” Haaretz reported.

    Peace Now echoed the sentiment, saying, "By declaring another 4,000 dunams (990 acres) as state land, the Israeli government stabs President Abbas and the moderate Palestinian forces in the back, proving again that violent delivers Israeli concessions while nonviolence results in settlement expansion."

    Israel has announced nearly 1,500 new settlement homes since mid-June, Maan reported, which could house more than 6,000 new settlers in the West Bank. Israeli settlement activity increased dramatically in April during the last round of failed peace negotiations.
    http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/31/bethlehem-israelconfiscates.html
  9. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    05 Sep '14 01:12
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    So what land were the Palestinians living on?
    Or where they floating above ground somewhere?
    The so-called Palestinians were living on land that did not belong to them.
  10. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    05 Sep '14 01:15
    Originally posted by finnegan
    And as at 1 September 2014 this report:
    Israel on Sunday confiscated nearly 1,000 acres of privately owned Palestinian land near an Israeli settlement south of Bethlehem in the West Bank — a move described by Israeli rights group Peace Now as “unprecedented in its scope since the 1980s."

    Settlements built on Palestinian land occupied by Israel, in ...[text shortened]... iations.
    http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/31/bethlehem-israelconfiscates.html
    Propaganda.
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    05 Sep '14 08:36
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Propaganda.
    Troll
  12. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    05 Sep '14 12:18
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-palestinians-cheer-israeli-skunk-truck-crashes-ravine

    It has been described as smelling like “a chunk of rotting corpse from a stagnant sewer” placed in a blender.

    It is the foul-smelling liquid the “skunk” truck, one of Israel’s weapons of occupation and oppression, routinely sprays at Palestinians.

    One of these skunk trucks can be seen in the video above spraying a jet of the disgusting liquid in eastern occupied Jerusalem on Saturday.

    “Apart from the repulsive nausea-inducing stench, the skunk liquid can cause pain and redness if it comes into contact with eyes, irritation if it comes into contact with skin and if swallowed can cause abdominal pain requiring medical treatment,” according to the Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI).

    The children who evidently shot the video and can be heard talking are lamenting that the truck seems to be heading in the direction of their house.

    They reassure each other that the windows of their house are closed.

    But then something extraordinary happens. The truck tumbles off the road down a vertical ravine to the cheers and delight of the people of the neighbourhood and the children making the film.

    ... As can be seen in the video, the skunk truck appears to be spraying a jet of its foul liquid over a wide area and at houses, an act that can have no effect other than to further provoke and aggravate the Palestinian victims of the Israeli occupation.

    On 26 August, the Wadi Hilweh Information Center, a local Jerusalem news agency, reported that Israeli occupation forces had severely escalated their use of skunk trucks over the last two months.

    Jerusalemites complained about the routine and indiscriminate spraying of the foul liquid at their homes, cars and businesses and said that the occupation has done this with increasing frequency since the 2 July kidnapping and murder by Israeli settlers of the Jerusalemite teenager Muhammad Abu Khudair.

    On 10 August, ACRI said it had contacted the commander of Jerusalem’s occupation police “to request that he urgently clarify the details” of Israel’s use of the substance.

    “Witness testimony reveals that the police indiscriminately sprayed the skunk liquid towards houses, people, restaurants brimming with people and in crowded streets, causing harm to innocent residents,” ACRI said. “Evidence suggests that in some cases the skunk repellent was arbitrarily used with no apparent justification and in the absence of any public disturbances.”

    It’s no wonder Palestinians were so delighted to see at least one Israeli skunk truck put out of action.
  13. 05 Sep '14 12:52
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Israeli settlements[1] are Israeli civilian communities[i] built on lands occupied by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War. Such settlements currently exist in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and in the Golan Heights. Settlements previously existed in the Sinai and Gaza Strip until Israel evacuated the Sinai settlements following the 1979 Israel-Egypt p ...[text shortened]... ed capital, while Palestinians are seeking to establish their capital in East Jerusalem.
    So how much? Consider also the land returned (Gaza). Also, throughout history land won in wars has been retained by the winner, if they wanted it. If not, they had a strong voice in who occupied that land.

    Considering that an Israeli loss of the '67 war would have likely resulted in the end of that nation, it is ludicrous that it would give back land that made its borders more defensible. In subsequent wars started by terrorist groups from neighboring nations, Israel has been remarkably restrained in not retaining control over lands from where they were attacked.

    When Mexico was defeated by Texans, first the nation of Texas was formed and later Statehood. Mexico lost the war and the land. Screw the international law and its courts which aren't any fair and impartial arbiters.
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    05 Sep '14 20:31
    Originally posted by normbenign
    So how much? Consider also the land returned (Gaza). Also, throughout history land won in wars has been retained by the winner, if they wanted it. If not, they had a strong voice in who occupied that land.

    Considering that an Israeli loss of the '67 war would have likely resulted in the end of that nation, it is ludicrous that it would give back land ...[text shortened]... land. Screw the international law and its courts which aren't any fair and impartial arbiters.
    Okay so you conquer land and then - as the occupying power - become responsible for the welfare of its inhabitants. What responsibility does the state of Israel accept for the Palestinians? Is apartheid an acceptable way to treat a conquered people? Is it okay to drive a skunk truck up the street and pour foul smelling liquid over their homes for example?

    The outcome of the 67 war was acknowledged by the United Nations (let's ignore its rights and wrongs as academic here) and the borders established then proposed as the basis for a two state solution. That might be viable in the long run but it is becoming an impossibility because of the way Israel is behaving. So what is the Israeli plan for the Palestinian people who have been ethnically cleansed and are being further pushed into a corner by their policies of continuing settlement and expansion?
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    05 Sep '14 20:48
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Okay so you conquer land and then - as the occupying power - become responsible for the welfare of its inhabitants. What responsibility does the state of Israel accept for the Palestinians? Is apartheid an acceptable way to treat a conquered people? Is it okay to drive a skunk truck up the street and pour foul smelling liquid over their homes for example? ...[text shortened]... are being further pushed into a corner by their policies of continuing settlement and expansion?
    The Israeli plan is a Jewish state with Jerusalem as the capital city where all the people, including the so-called Palestinians, are living in peace and prosperity. But the so-called Palestinians will not have anything but Jihad.