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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    05 Dec '10 17:57 / 1 edit
    Amid all the economic pain, doomsday predictions, and general moaning and groaning about the economy, many people have lost sight of the fact that in Europe, as well as the United States, standards of living were far worse 75-100 years ago than they are now, life expectency was shorter, and multiple families living under one roof were not uncommon. The crash of 2008 damaged the American economy, and it will not snap back like a rubber band, as many in America expect it to do, but it will get better folks. Just as America and Europe survived the great depression, they will also survive this economic downturn. Perhaps this is a time for all of us to look at our own economic situations, ask ourselves if we're spending our money wisely, saving enough, seeking cheaper pastimes, and choosing not to buy some of the latest electronic (keep up with the jonses) gagets. Some will argue that consumer spending will fuel a recovery, well...this is true, but spending must be tempered with good judgment.

    Financial institutions and lack of government oversite share a measure of blame for this economic mess, no doubt about it, but individuals overspending, borrowing too much, and not saving enough were a big part of it as well. We can't always control what banks and politicians do. We can however take the next few years to get our finincial house in order, and in doing so, minimize the effects of economic downturns which are a part of any economy.
  2. 05 Dec '10 18:39
    Originally posted by bill718
    Amid all the economic pain, doomsday predictions, and general moaning and groaning about the economy, many people have lost sight of the fact that in Europe, as well as the United States, standards of living were far worse 75-100 years ago than they are now, life expectency was shorter, and multiple families living under one roof were not uncommon. The crash ...[text shortened]... , and in doing so, minimize the effects of economic downturns which are a part of any economy.
    ...
    but individuals overspending, borrowing too much, and not saving enough were a big part of it as well.


    And our Government as well!
    As far as spending is concerned, Canned goods,medical supplies,guns and ammo!
  3. 05 Dec '10 19:19
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    ...
    but individuals overspending, borrowing too much, and not saving enough were a big part of it as well.


    And our Government as well!
    As far as spending is concerned, Canned goods,medical supplies,guns and ammo!
    just out of curiosity, are you posting this as you point your rifle at an Obama poster?
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    05 Dec '10 20:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    just out of curiosity, are you posting this as you point your rifle at an Obama poster?
    I'm not pointing a rifle at anyone. I'm trying to point out 2 things:

    1. Bad is this economic downturn is, it will pass in time

    2. Reminding everyone (including myself) to take a long, hard look at our own situations and make sure we're doing everything we can to spend wisely. There is enough folks looking someone to blame here...we don't need one more.
  5. 05 Dec '10 21:09
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm not pointing a rifle at anyone. I'm trying to point out 2 things:

    1. Bad is this economic downturn is, it will pass in time

    2. Reminding everyone (including myself) to take a long, hard look at our own situations and make sure we're doing everything we can to spend wisely. There is enough folks looking someone to blame here...we don't need one more.
    You bring up good points.
    Our standard of living in this economic miasma is still better than people had it back in times past when things were supposedly swell.

    My grandparents were poor in the 20's, when the economy was going great guns, when the depression hit, they spent the 30's worrying about what they would have to feed the kids at the end of the week. My mother dropped out of school after completing the 6th grade so she could help take in laundry and baby sit for a few dollars a week.

    I see people whining about what a "police state" America is becoming, and watch youtube videos of them abusing and harrassing police officers in outrageous ways, trying to goad them on. Talk to a cop in the 1950's they way these geniuses are doing, you'd of ended up getting thumped and tossed in jail for being a jerk with no questions asked.

    We are becoming a spoiled nation of cry babies and cowards. We say we are hungry and can't put food on the table, but we are fat. We say the police are abusive while we treat them like dirt and cry about our rights as we scream and curse at them as they stand by helplessly and take it, because they'd get in trouble if they did anything about it.
  6. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    05 Dec '10 21:45
    Originally posted by bill718
    Amid all the economic pain, doomsday predictions, and general moaning and groaning about the economy, many people have lost sight of the fact that in Europe, as well as the United States, standards of living were far worse 75-100 years ago than they are now, life expectency was shorter, and multiple families living under one roof were not uncommon. The crash ...[text shortened]... , and in doing so, minimize the effects of economic downturns which are a part of any economy.
    Easy solution for the US....

    Raise taxes and cut spending. Oh, and no more wars for a while.
  7. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    05 Dec '10 21:50
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    You bring up good points.
    Our standard of living in this economic miasma is still better than people had it back in times past when things were supposedly swell.

    My grandparents were poor in the 20's, when the economy was going great guns, when the depression hit, they spent the 30's worrying about what they would have to feed the kids at the end ...[text shortened]... by helplessly and take it, because they'd get in trouble if they did anything about it.
    Surely you all recognize the path you are on..don't you??

    The standard of living for most western countries, and the US in particular WILL go down from where it is now. Perhaps not as low as it was 100 years ago but just look at what the FED's solution to this financial mess is in both Europe and the US....They are printing money!!

    What does this mean? It means inflation at some point. It means the value of your dollar will be worth less than what it is now.

    What does that mean? It means as inflation goes up and the value of your dollar goes down it is increasingly harder for you to buy things and obtain goods and services. This is what is meant by STANDARD OF LIVING.

    It WILL go down. You should be prepared for it. And it will get even tougher when regardless of which party is in the whitehouse, your taxes go up to pay off the bondholders of US debt.

    This is simple economics, folks.
  8. 05 Dec '10 22:38
    Originally posted by uzless
    Surely you all recognize the path you are on..don't you??

    The standard of living for most western countries, and the US in particular WILL go down from where it is now. Perhaps not as low as it was 100 years ago but just look at what the FED's solution to this financial mess is in both Europe and the US....They are printing money!!

    What does this m ...[text shortened]... e, your taxes go up to pay off the bondholders of US debt.

    This is simple economics, folks.
    Yes another good point, I think.

    I've heard the same doom & gloom scenarios for over 40 years, I used to be a survivalist, keeping a year's supply of food in my basement, various supplies, etc, and maintaining a couple thousand rounds of ammo on hand for when the sht hit the fan.

    I don't care anymore.

    It'll either work itself out or it won't. I'll be dead before it happens anyway.
  9. 05 Dec '10 22:43
    Most of you are probably too thick to get it but stop killing innocent people would be a good place to start.
  10. 05 Dec '10 22:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Halelujah
    Most of you are probably too thick to get it but stop killing innocent people would be a good place to start.
    ok i won't kill any more innocent people are you happy now?

    But WHY do they come to me to die? WHY?

    The voices are calling again. Sam....needs....blood.....
  11. 06 Dec '10 04:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    ...
    but individuals overspending, borrowing too much, and not saving enough were a big part of it as well.


    And our Government as well!
    As far as spending is concerned, Canned goods,medical supplies,guns and ammo!
    You forgot the emergency garden and a copy of the US Constitution and Mark Lavines Liberty and Tyranny!!!

    After all, someone will have to start things over again. :'(
  12. 07 Dec '10 00:40
    Originally posted by uzless
    Easy solution for the US....

    Raise taxes and cut spending. Oh, and no more wars for a while.
    Just what spending, Mr. Gingr... or whoever you might be, would you propose we "cut"? Medicare? S.Sec.? Defense? We're all ears.
  13. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    07 Dec '10 23:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Just what spending, Mr. Gingr... or whoever you might be, would you propose we "cut"? Medicare? S.Sec.? Defense? We're all ears.
    Defense for sure.

    Then cut the billions in grants and tax breaks you give to the oil industry..they make enough money.

    Then bring in a VAT tax (value added tax) on purchased items so that you shift the tax burden from income to consumption.

    Then eliminate the deduction on mortgage interest for houses valued higher than $500,000. (this benefits the rich disproportionately anyway)

    Then eliminate the bush era tax cuts that mostly just benefit the rich.


    Just those few steps alone that i've outlined above will help you eliminate your yearly deficit.



    Oh, and regulate those damn banks so they don't cause you to give them hundreds of billions to recapitalize.

    Jeesh, it ain't rocket science.
  14. 08 Dec '10 04:40
    Just for our American friends on the Republican side of fence.

    Do you think any of the previous Bush administration will be making any household cutbacks this Xmas?
  15. 08 Dec '10 05:28 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Hopster
    Just for our American friends on the Republican side of fence.

    Do you think any of the previous Bush administration will be making any household cutbacks this Xmas?
    "W" is too busy pimping his book to be bothered to cut back. That is my guess. In addition, he is not too familiar with the term "cut back".

    What I can't understand though is who is going to read it and then buy it? I mean, its written in crayon and only two pages long!!

    Of course, when asked to comment on the current administration his lips just lock into place. He just gives that horrible smirky grin and says, "No comment. I'm just here to sell books, yuk, yuk, yuk."