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Debates Forum

  1. 13 Jun '09 15:49
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31183772/ns/politics-white_house/

    Ok kids, wheres the beef? Obama shoved a $787 billion stimulus package through Congress with the promise of 600,000 jobs created or saved. To date, since the stimulus package was passed in February there have been 1.6 milion jobs shed as Obama's approval rating on the economy has dropped from 30% to 42%. In fact, the unemployment rate has increased to close to 10% which is above his 8% forcast. The article states that Obama claims $150,000 jobs that have been created or saved saying, "A figure that is so murky it could never be verified".

    So how about it, have we been lied to or is the President in over his head? Personally, I have witnessed increasing friends and familiy who have recently become unemployed. In addition, we are drowning in debt to depths never seen in human history. It is just another example of how Washington just throws money at problems without an incling as to how to fix them. The problem is that the higher the amount of money thrown at the problem, the higher the stakes are in gambling you know what the @$$@ you are doing!!!!
  2. 13 Jun '09 15:57
    Maybe 2.2 million jobs would have been lost without the stimulus package. I don't know and I can't tell, but did this possibility seriously never cross your mind?
  3. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Jun '09 15:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    So how about it, have we been lied to or is the President in over his head? Personally, I have witnessed increasing friends and familiy who have recently become unemployed. In addition, we are drowning in debt to depths never seen in human history.
    Let's hope you are able to offer your family and friends well considered and grown up advice and analysis. When a relative of yours has lost his or her service sector job or has a heap of debt on his or her credit card, or a headache over a house he or she wasn't able to afford, do you find that your conversation with them revolves solely around Barack Obama?
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Jun '09 16:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Obama shoved a $787 billion stimulus package through Congress with the promise of 600,000 jobs created or saved.
    Everyone knows that jobs are being lost. There is a recession. Do you have any evidence that 600,000 jobs haven't been saved by the stimulus package?

    EDIT: this is, of course, exactly the same question as KN has just asked you, I now realize.
  5. 13 Jun '09 16:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Maybe 2.2 million jobs would have been lost without the stimulus package. I don't know and I can't tell, but did this possibility seriously never cross your mind?
    As the article states, Obama lays claim to saving or creating about $150,000 jobs via the stimulus package. However, these claims cannot be substantiated. He was not about to lay claim to saving 2.2 million jobs. Not even Obama can lie like that. LOL.
  6. 13 Jun '09 16:19 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Everyone knows that jobs are being lost. There is a recession. Do you have any evidence that 600,000 jobs haven't been saved by the stimulus package?

    EDIT: this is, of course, exactly the same question as KN has just asked you, I now realize.
    Of course I realize we are in a recession/depression, however, flushing close to $800 billion dollars down the comode in order to "fix" things and not being able to do so is quite another thing altogether. In short, if you don't know what you are doing or cannot back up your promises, perhaps it is best just not doing anything at all!!

    Anyhew, now that he has fixed the economy and unemployment I think it only fitting that he is given the oppurtunity to fix health care.
  7. 13 Jun '09 16:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    As the article states, Obama lays claim to saving or creating about $150,000 jobs via the stimulus package. However, these claims cannot be substantiated. He was not about to lay claim to saving 2.2 million jobs. Not even Obama can lie like that. LOL.
    I'm not saying his claims can be substantiated. I'm just saying your claim that the stimulus package didn't save jobs cannot be substantiated.

    In fact, when pouring a lot of money into the economy it would seem rather absurd to me that this would not create jobs on the short term.
  8. 13 Jun '09 16:24
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I'm not saying his claims can be substantiated. I'm just saying your claim that the stimulus package didn't save jobs cannot be substantiated.

    In fact, when pouring a lot of money into the economy it would seem rather absurd to me that this would not create jobs on the short term.
    Soi what you are saying is that it is OK to blow $800 billion dollars on a hope and a prayer that has to forseeable way of assessing its failure/success? Have you ever considered running for political office?
  9. Standard member Thequ1ck
    Fast above
    13 Jun '09 16:27
    Aw come on!

    The IT jobsector has made at least that many jobs redundant. We're just
    paying the price now when it suits the leaders.

    Question is, what is dey saving for?
  10. 13 Jun '09 16:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I'm not saying his claims can be substantiated. I'm just saying your claim that the stimulus package didn't save jobs cannot be substantiated.

    In fact, when pouring a lot of money into the economy it would seem rather absurd to me that this would not create jobs on the short term.
    In the end, whether it be Obama's failure or not, his head will be on the block in 4 years if things do not improve. No one much cares about the facts when they can't pay the mortgage or feed themselves and it is always the knee jerk reaction to take your problems out on the President elect. Like it or not, things must improve or he is toast. Their is only so much fame and charisma will buy you and he is loosing that capital quickly.
  11. 13 Jun '09 16:30 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Soi what you are saying is that it is OK to blow $800 billion dollars on a hope and a prayer that has to forseeable way of assessing its failure/success? Have you ever considered running for political office?
    Well, I would say it's better to fund the stimulus package by raising taxes for the rich rather than placing the burden on future generations.

    And once again, you cannot substantiate the $800 billion is "blown".
  12. 13 Jun '09 16:34 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Well, I would say it's better to fund the stimulus package by raising taxes for the rich rather than placing the burden on future generations.

    And once again, you cannot substantiate the $800 billion is "blown".
    Rather than placing the burnden on future generations? Do you even have an incling as to how much debt Obama is generating? He will put "W" to shame and "W" doubled the national debt. How can this not put a burden on future generations? EVERYONE will be effected.

    I wanred people like Maurader about Obama out spending "W" and I was scorned for doing so. Now what does everyone think? Obama is nothing more than "W" on steroids.
  13. 13 Jun '09 16:37
    Originally posted by whodey
    How can this not put a burden on future generations?
    By raising the currently ridiculously and unsustainably low taxes.
  14. 13 Jun '09 16:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    By raising the currently ridiculously and unsustainably low taxes.
    Didn't you hear? Obama has lowered the taxes for the middle class. He expects to pay down trillions of dollars off of what he is spending of those make above $200,000. Just like "W" he MUST say he gave tax breaks to get elected. It is part of the disconnect American voters have with reality. They want Big Brother to take care of them but don't want to pay for it. It is why the natinoal debt doubled with "W" and is why it will probably rise four times that with king Obama and his czars. The only question is, when does it all go bust?
  15. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Jun '09 16:50
    Originally posted by whodey
    The only question is, when does it all go bust?
    No it isn't. Another question is: why do you bellyache about high taxes AND bellyache about tax cuts?